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11-09-2005, 11:56 PM
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#331 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edmonton,Alberta
Posts: 2,260
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ No sweat - Max Brestel shot down 2 on March 10, 1967 as did David Waldrop Aug 23, 1967. Both were flying "D" models and both hosed them with cannon fire. | Your sig, is actually footage from an Thuds point of veiw, I knew I recognized that picture, it was from a book of mine. | 
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11-10-2005, 06:23 AM
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#332 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,007
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by 102first_hussars Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ No sweat - Max Brestel shot down 2 on March 10, 1967 as did David Waldrop Aug 23, 1967. Both were flying "D" models and both hosed them with cannon fire. | Your sig, is actually footage from an Thuds point of veiw, I knew I recognized that picture, it was from a book of mine. | Yep - I think it was gun camera footage from Maj. Ralph Kuster who shot down this Mig during the same time period.
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11-10-2005, 10:29 AM
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#333 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edmonton,Alberta
Posts: 2,260
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Originally Posted by pbfoot i recall reading the f105 cannon was pointed down a slight angel for ground attack | Well in WW2 ground crew would slightly adjust the guns downward so the plane could strafe the target and not fly directly into their target.
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Hello me...meet the real me.
And my misfits way of life.
A dark black past is my
Most valued possession.
Hindsight is always 20-20,
But looking back its still a bit fuzzy.
Speak of mutually assured destruction?
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11-10-2005, 10:35 AM
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#334 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,538
Country: | Which airplanes?
__________________  http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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11-10-2005, 02:05 PM
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#335 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NIAGARA
Posts: 4,404
Country: | ref the gun on the 105 being pointed at slight angle for ground attack i got the info from a trilogy of fiction novels by Tom wilson these fictional books cover 105 ops from Takhli the author had 500 combat hours in 105s one of the best reads i've had on fighter ops so the info might be incorrect but i can't confirm either way . Any way they are one of the best I've read | |
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11-10-2005, 02:10 PM
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#336 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,007
Country: | There are guys who flew the -105 where I work at. I'll ask them....
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11-10-2005, 03:55 PM
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#337 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Edmonton,Alberta
Posts: 2,260
Country: | Basically any plane that had a barrell stickin out of the wing, because all the mechanics had to do was adjust the "stablizers" that held the barrels still, doing that they could slightly tilt the cannons or mg's downwards.
I would imagine this was done quite frequently with the P-47's winged 50.cal and the P-38's nosed cannons.
I do know that for low altitude runs the guns would be tilted the same angle as the bomb load underneath, so that the pilot could confirm where a bomb will hit just by firing a few rounds to see where they strike and then release,
If you have seen the movie 'We Were Soldiers' you may remeber the A1 skyraider doing the exact same thing before he dropped the Napalm.
__________________
Hello me...meet the real me.
And my misfits way of life.
A dark black past is my
Most valued possession.
Hindsight is always 20-20,
But looking back its still a bit fuzzy.
Speak of mutually assured destruction?
Nice story...tell it to readers digest!!! | |
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11-10-2005, 04:00 PM
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#338 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,142
| I know of no P38 that had its MG and connon adjusted for downward elevation.
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11-10-2005, 04:06 PM
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#339 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,538
Country: | I know a former P-47 mech too. He never mentioned guns being pointed downward either. Shooting ahead of a bomb run shows the angle that you have. Having guns pointed downward to do that would give you the wrong trajectory. I don't believe that the mounts for the guns could have been adjusted enough to make that big of a difference anyway.
Where did you get the info about adjusting guns downward?
__________________ http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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11-10-2005, 04:17 PM
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#340 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,007
Country: | The manufacturer specifies boresighting requirements in their maintenance manuals that puts a "harmonized" concentration (kill box) at about 1000' in front of the aircraft. Here's a site on it... http://www.cfgse.calebflerk.com/boresighting.htm
It would be impossible to boresight the guns "down" and have the gun sight accurate. I've never heard of such thing!!!!
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11-10-2005, 06:36 PM
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#341 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,007
Country: | OK GUYS! I asked a few F-16 guys before I left work. It's guns are bore sighted for a kill zone STRAIGHT in front of the aircraft. I was told by this one Tech Sargent (who was an F-16 crew chief) that the aircraft actually flies a bit "nose high" so the guns are angled slightly down, but as he put it "a gnats hair." For the most part the "Kill Zone" is right in front of the aircraft.
Tomorrow I'm hoping to meet with a couple of guys who flew F-105s and AD-1s, will post the information accordingly.....
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11-10-2005, 08:32 PM
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#342 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,960
Country: | Ive met my share of fighter mechs, and I have never heard anything, or read anything, that says that the guns were adjusted downward...
And as for the whole "shoot the guns for AOA" and "confirm where a bomb will hit just by firing rounds" wouldnt u guys think that maybe theyre shooting at the enemy prior to the bombs exploding....
Its called strafing...
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11-11-2005, 08:10 AM
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#343 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,538
Country: | Good point, Les. Much less likely for the enemy to shoot back when they have to keep their heads down.
__________________ http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
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11-11-2005, 08:59 AM
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#344 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,456
Country:  | Sounds like a bunch of hogwash to me. If you put your guns downward slightly anyhow (which they did not do) you would not get a straight shot at a target in front of you. Would make killing harder.
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11-11-2005, 09:51 AM
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#345 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 13,007
Country: | Our pilots are off today (Veterans Day) I did find this on the Corsair....
"F4U-2 was a night fighter version of the dash one. For reasons known only to the US Navy, instead of calling it the "F4U-1N" (a method it used on all succeeding models), they gave it the dash two designation. The dash one was transformed into the dash two by modifying the starboard wing and the radio bay in the fuselage to accept the "XAIA" ("Experimental Airborne Intercept [model] A") radar which was hand-built.
The starboard wing was modified by removing the outboard .50 cal. (12.7 mm) Colt-Browning and altering the wing to support the radar scanner. The radio was removed and placed beneath the pilot’s seat and the radar set was placed in the radio bay. There were other slight modifications such as bore sighting the guns to converge fire at 250 yards (228.6 m) and were angled slightly upward so the pilot could fire without bouncing around in the target’s slip-stream. There were no tracers loaded so as not to blind the pilot when firing. The engine was fitted with exhaust flame dampers. After radar installation, the aircraft weighed 235 pounds less than the standard dash one."
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