The Greatest Fighter Jet of All Time.

[davparlr]

Originally Posted by syscom3

I've seen some recent evidence that a MiG-15 flown by a pilot who knew what they were doing was more than a handfull for the F86's. Plus the Mig-15 flight performace was better than the F86.

For the F4..... it may not have been superior in any one thing, but the era it was flown in, it was good in enough of them. The F8 might have been a great dogfighter, but it could never have handled the wild weasel support.

The F15 and 16, while excellent aircraft have one facet missing in the their resume's.... theyre not carrier capable. The F4 is.

Conversely, the F14 isnt a close air support aircraft, and its crappy engines limit its roll as a potential long range air defense fighter. The F18..... well its something for everyone, master of none.

American F-86 aces would tell you that a Mig flown by an expert, ususally Russian, pilot was a handfull. To hear the Russians tell it, Russian pilots had a greater than even kill ratio over the F-86, but then, you gotta believe what they say. Overall the F-86 was the better fighter. The Mig had some quirks and manual flight controls.

Your comments on the F-4 was about what I said. F-8 pilots thought they were invincible. The F-4 pilots, when taught how to fly the F-4 against the F-8, were more successful. But the F-8 pilots never had to learn how to attack the F-4 to beat it. That debate will go on ad infinitum.

I don't think carrier qual is an important criteria for the worlds best fighter.

F-18 is a much better F-4. Its important for a Navy plane to handle multiple roles well and the F-18 does this job just fine. I am not sure how the F-35 will stack up against all the F-18 capability but it will certainly be superior in most.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by davparlr

......
I don't think carrier qual is an important criteria for the worlds best fighter.
.........

I think it is important as carrier aircraft are solidly built. The USAF got a solid airframe and both branches of the services saved loads of money on a common airframe.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by davparlr

American F-86 aces would tell you that a Mig flown by an expert, ususally Russian, pilot was a handfull. To hear the Russians tell it, Russian pilots had a greater than even kill ratio over the F-86, but then, you gotta believe what they say.

If you count their participation in the Korean War that magical 10 to 1 kill ratio probably goes down to 3 or 4 to one. Many Russians who flew in Korea "really" over-exaggerated their kills in as much I remember reading that they claimed something like 250 F-80s destroyed, well I don't think there were that many in the whole theater at any given time!!!

[davparlr]

Originally Posted by syscom3

I think it is important as carrier aircraft are solidly built. The USAF got a solid airframe and both branches of the services saved loads of money on a common airframe.

All this is true for the F-4. Especially considering the state of Air Force design. Also, It is easier to convert a Navy design into an Air Force aircraft rather than vice versa. However, I don't think the F-18 would be considered a better fighter than the F-16, more flexible yes.

[syscom3]

For air-to-air, I'd take the F16.

For ground support, Id take the F18.

[davparlr]

Originally Posted by syscom3

For air-to-air, I'd take the F16.

For ground support, Id take the F18.

I agree. The F-18 also has more avionics space for growth.

[Bullockracing]

I picked the F-15, just because it can accelerate vertically and the 16 can't. If I knew more about the Su-37, I may have picked it.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Okay but what kind of advantage is that really when it comes to fighting other aircraft. Sure you can take off and get to alltitude quicker but there is no advantage in that when it comes to dogfighting or ground attack or anything like that.

[Soren]

The MIG-15 was only handful for the F-86 Sabre in the beginning, later on with the introduction of the F-86F which had a better and more powerful engine and was equipped with automatic-slats, the MIG-15 wasn't nearly the headache it used to be. The increased engine power coupled with the automatic-slats meant that the Sabre could now out-maneuver and out-climb the MIG-15.

[FLYBOYJ]

And when the F-86 Es and Fs came into the theater, the A models weren't quickly rotated out. I show some As remaining in the theater until late 1952.

[Soren]

Yeah, but at the time F reached service the bulk of the Sabre's were E models(Which unlike the A had hydraulic controls, a BIG advantage), although as you pointed out there were still some A's left.

The hydraulic controls and the automatic-slats introduced in the E made the Sabre more maneuverable than the MIG, and the introduction of a new and more powerful engine in the F gave the Sabre complete superiority over the MIG.

[Bullockracing]

Adler, I picked the F-15 without using any logic other than accelerating vertically is bada*s. I believe that the 15 is superior to the 16 due to the performance advantages, and the safety with the other engine.

The first five aircraft in this poll seem to be outclassed by the rest.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I agree that the F-15 is better than the F-16. Dont take me wrong. I just think that the ability to accelerate vertically does not stand it over the others. Just my opinion though.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Soren

Yeah, but at the time F reached service the bulk of the Sabre's were E models(Which unlike the A had hydraulic controls, a BIG advantage), although as you pointed out there were still some A's left.

The hydraulic controls and the automatic-slats introduced in the E made the Sabre more maneuverable than the MIG, and the introduction of a new and more powerful engine in the F gave the Sabre complete superiority over the MIG.

The only thing the Mig always had over the Sabre was acceleration - it could accelerate faster until the F-86 reached peak speed - this existed across all models - the key was not to put the Mig in an advantage where this slight edge could be exploited...

[Soren]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

The only thing the Mig always had over the Sabre was acceleration - it could accelerate faster until the F-86 reached peak speed - this existed across all models - the key was not to put the Mig in an advantage where this slight edge could be exploited...

Yep, exactly.