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05-07-2008, 03:47 PM
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#631 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1
Country:  | the arrow was a toilet thats why they scrapped it. | 
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05-09-2008, 05:30 PM
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#632 | | Solopsist Extraordinaire
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,143
Country:  | And coming from a Canuck... 
__________________ 
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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05-09-2008, 05:56 PM
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#633 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NIAGARA
Posts: 4,127
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt308  And coming from a Canuck... | Hes not really a Canuck we are much more eloquent or is that elegant
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05-09-2008, 08:53 PM
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#634 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,658
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by totenkopf the arrow was a toilet thats why they scrapped it. |  
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"  | |
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05-09-2008, 11:06 PM
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#635 | | Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2
Country:  | Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Nope - I understand it made it back to base but was written off upon return... | I herad about that, aparently it got back with half a wing missing. | |
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05-10-2008, 10:03 AM
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#636 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 554
Country:  | Hello totenkopf,
I think the “Toilet” was still far more promising that this: leduc_022_13[1].jpg
The Vigilante, the Arrow and the BAC TSR.2 where somhow all kinda alike. And the main contender somehow was always the F-111
Is there any thread around like; most useless or ugliest jet?
Regards
Kruska
__________________  Ich war Flieger - kein Killer
Last edited by Kruska : 05-10-2008 at 10:12 AM.
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05-11-2008, 08:01 AM
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#637 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 362
Country: |
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbfoot Hes not really a Canuck we are much more eloquent or is that elegant | I believe the phrase is "Elgantly Eloquent".... eh?
Elvis | |
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05-11-2008, 10:11 AM
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#638 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 136
Country: | For best fighter, I'll go with the F-15. I know it doesn't have as lengthy a service record as the F-4, but it has enough to demonstrate that its success is no fluke. And the fighter-bomber derivative (F-15E) has been a smashing success also. None of the others even come close. It has been the dominant fighter for over 3 decades.
The inclusion of the MiG-29 seems a bit odd. If memory serves me (riiight...), doesn't it have a combat record of 0-12, or something like that? While I know that it's probably been poorly served by its pilots, one still expects that 'The Greatest Fighter' title should go to one with a successful combat record...
The discussion regarding the AVRO Arrow's possible influence on US combat AC reflects the common apocryphal myths that have surrounded that plane since its cancellation. It is Canada's equivalent to the BAC TSR.2 (not its combat role per se, but as an expression of national technological pride), and like the TSR.2, its marvelous abilities only increases with time. Both AC were overly ambitious, over-specialized, and too expensive to be supported by their respective nations. All moot, really, as neither would have seen action during their expected service life.
I'm sure that some use was probably made of the technical data garnered during the development of the Arrow, and that the US aircraft companies benefited from the experience of the AVRO engineers that joined them after the cancellation, but I don't think any US combat AC is a direct descendent of the Arrow. The F-106 is the nearest equivalent, albeit much less ambitious in scope.
The nearest equivalents to the Arrow are Russian...MiG-25/31, Tu-128, and the Su-15, although none of these combine all the promised capabilities of the Arrow.
JL
Last edited by buzzard : 05-11-2008 at 05:25 PM.
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05-11-2008, 02:06 PM
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#639 | | Solopsist Extraordinaire
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,143
Country: | Don't forget that the MiG-29 did shoot down an unarmed Chechan drone.
__________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
| | |
05-11-2008, 04:25 PM
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#640 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,320
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by Kruska I think the “Toilet” was still far more promising that this:
Is there any thread around like; most useless or ugliest jet? | My hat goes off to those brave Leduc drivers...  | |
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05-11-2008, 04:38 PM
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#641 | | Solopsist Extraordinaire
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,143
Country: | What's that he's saying? Oh yeah, "If I suffer a birdstrike, I want a closed casket burial."
__________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
| | |
05-12-2008, 01:30 AM
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#642 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,658
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard For best fighter, I'll go with the F-15. I know it doesn't have as lengthy a service record as the F-4, but it has enough to demonstrate that its success is no fluke. And the fighter-bomber derivative (F-15E) has been a smashing success also. None of the others even come close. It has been the dominant fighter for over 3 decades.
The inclusion of the MiG-29 seems a bit odd. If memory serves me (riiight...), doesn't it have a combat record of 0-12, or something like that? While I know that it's probably been poorly served by its pilots, one still expects that 'The Greatest Fighter' title should go to one with a successful combat record...
The discussion regarding the AVRO Arrow's possible influence on US combat AC reflects the common apocryphal myths that have surrounded that plane since its cancellation. It is Canada's equivalent to the BAC TSR.2 (not its combat role per se, but as an expression of national technological pride), and like the TSR.2, its marvelous abilities only increases with time. Both AC were overly ambitious, over-specialized, and too expensive to be supported by their respective nations. All moot, really, as neither would have seen action during their expected service life.
I'm sure that some use was probably made of the technical data garnered during the development of the Arrow, and that the US aircraft companies benefited from the experience of the AVRO engineers that joined them after the cancellation, but I don't think any US combat AC is a direct descendent of the Arrow. The F-106 is the nearest equivalent, albeit much less ambitious in scope.
The nearest equivalents to the Arrow are Russian...MiG-25/31, Tu-128, and the Su-15, although none of these combine all the promised capabilities of the Arrow.
JL | Great perspective on the whole Arrow discussion - also remember as the Arrow was being scrapped North American was mocking up the F-108 which "would of" been very similar in performance. At the same time look at the Vigilante which was being developed at the same time - although it was a bomber it seemed like a carbon copy of the arrow's performance.
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
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05-12-2008, 08:23 AM
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#643 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 554
Country: | Hello FLYBOY,
But before the F-108 they still had to “hide” the previous idea. BTW was the pilot supposed to jettison/eject downwards? Attachment 62957
Regards
Kruska
__________________ Ich war Flieger - kein Killer
Last edited by Kruska : 05-17-2008 at 05:06 PM.
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05-18-2008, 05:05 PM
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#644 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 147
Country:  | Regarding the Lightning, the idea that it was a straight line interceptor that couldn't dogfight is a bit of a misnomer. In Roland Beaumonts book 'Testing Early Jets' there is a flight test report on the Lightning by a USAF test pilot (name escapes me) who (rather excitedly) declares it to be the finest fighter aircraft he has flown, describing a speed and acceleration that took his breath away and easily beat the F-104 and F-106 and being amazed that it also handled like an F-86 (his words) adding that a jet like this shouldn't be able to turn like it does. | |
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05-18-2008, 06:41 PM
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#645 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,658
Country: | Beau Beaumont was an excellent pilot and could probably fly a barn door and out fly 95% of the pilots he'd come up against.
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