 | Main battle tanks of today.....| Modern Discuss Main battle tanks of today..... in the Other Eras forums; Seems like a classic case of preparing for the last war and not the next. Current structures are to a ... |
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05-06-2008, 04:35 AM
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#106 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: London
Posts: 2,794
| Seems like a classic case of preparing for the last war and not the next. Current structures are to a large degree based on the Cold War and a clash of armoured forces.
The current conflicts are anything but. | 
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05-06-2008, 05:41 AM
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#107 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 771
Country:  | There are a number of unresolved problems with the MBT centred force structure. Firstly is the enormous cost of the MBT. It is vulnerable, despite the the sophisticated armour that is now being developed and employed. it has very limited applications in just about any battle environment, except the northern european plain. It cannot effectively engage in urban warfare, and its mobility in anything except the european context is very limited. It is a force structure heavily dependant on its support echelons. there are many who are beginning to wonder if the expenditure for such a limited weapons system is actually worth it
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05-06-2008, 07:01 AM
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#108 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,443
| Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet  He does not live in Germany. He is in Denmark. | For the time being, yes. Like you say the taxes are very high, although that does have its benefits.
My biggest problem with this place though is when moving here I had to get used to driving much cheaper cars as the registration toll is so high.
__________________  We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | 
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05-06-2008, 11:26 AM
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#109 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,854
Country:  | Yes I would have had to get rid of my Jeep because they put a luxury tax on it.
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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05-06-2008, 12:29 PM
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#110 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Pine Mountain Lake, California
Posts: 622
Country:  | Quote:
Originally Posted by parsifal There are a number of unresolved problems with the MBT centred force structure. Firstly is the enormous cost of the MBT. It is vulnerable, despite the the sophisticated armour that is now being developed and employed. it has very limited applications in just about any battle environment, except the northern european plain. It cannot effectively engage in urban warfare, and its mobility in anything except the european context is very limited. It is a force structure heavily dependant on its support echelons. there are many who are beginning to wonder if the expenditure for such a limited weapons system is actually worth it | For the most part, this is true; however, we (meaning the Americans) don't currently have anything else that is as survivable as an MBT, even in an urban environment. An APC (such as the M2/M3 Bradley AFV) is probably more useful in the urban combat environments we are currently involved in (I'm thinking of Iraq, of course) since it is fairly mobile and has adequate firepower for the environment it is in, but it is not very survivable. The Bushmaster cannon on the M2/M3 series of vehicles is much more useful against the "soft" targets we are encountering, as opposed to the M256A1 120 mm smoothbore cannon on the M1 which is, to say the least, overkill against "soft" targets. Unfortunately, the aluminum armor on the Bradley is not as effective as the DU/composite "Chobham" armor on the M1.
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05-06-2008, 01:57 PM
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#111 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 771
Country: | one has to also say that the tanks still play significant roles in delivering firepower for the assault. I think the traditional exploitation role of the tank, developed prior to WWII is the role most under threat. Tanks in the modern battle environment appear to be just too vulnerable to race off in the lead towards the rear area. If ther are any Iraq vets, would not mind any comments on the veracity of this observation. I am not completely convinced by the arguments either way which is raging not just in this forum.
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05-06-2008, 08:18 PM
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#112 | | Solopsist Extraordinaire
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,143
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by Soren What do you mean ?
You may ask, but I wont tell  | I too enjoy some anonymity in my internet forays. And that has not settled well with some of my Forum mates. That was all I wished to imply.
And... I will not ask again. May the Farce be with you. 
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"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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05-07-2008, 03:18 PM
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#113 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,443
| Copy that Matt! And may the farce be with you as-well Now lets toast on that! 
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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05-07-2008, 03:47 PM
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#114 | | Solopsist Extraordinaire
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,143
Country: | Cheers.
__________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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05-07-2008, 04:59 PM
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#115 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 554
Country: | Stitch; For the most part, this is true; however, we (meaning the Americans) don't currently have anything else that is as survivable as an MBT, even in an urban environment.
Hello Stitch,
that was the reason why the German Army had the worlds best APC in Bosnia.
We took a Leopard and packed six infantry guy's into it.  it's true
Regards
Kruska
__________________  Ich war Flieger - kein Killer | |
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05-07-2008, 05:40 PM
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#116 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Queensland- Australia
Posts: 848
Country: | I like the challanger, Because i think it looks cool, from a military standpoint i dont know enough to comment about it.
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I am also one of the 2% who does not own a myspace account....
DEFY THE SYSTEM | |
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05-07-2008, 09:11 PM
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#117 | | Solopsist Extraordinaire
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,143
Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by Kruska
We took a Leopard and packed six infantry guy's into it. it's true
Regards
Kruska | Huh? Explain.
__________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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05-07-2008, 09:23 PM
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#118 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,443
| I think he means they used Leopards as APC's - I've seen that before (Wont hold in combat though)
__________________ We have built a total of about 1250 of this aircraft (Me-262), but only fifty were allowed to be used as fighters - as interceptors. And out of this fifty, there were never more than 25 operational. So we had only a very, very few.
- Adolf Galland | |
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05-07-2008, 10:45 PM
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#119 | | Solopsist Extraordinaire
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,143
Country: | What remove the turret like other attempts to use a common chassis? Sounds rather ponderous for a APC in all but the most extreme environments.
__________________
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
| | |
05-08-2008, 12:56 AM
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#120 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 28,854
Country: | No he means they crammed 6 guys into a Leopard because of the protection. In combat it would not be very feasable because as your gusy are scrambling to get out of the turret hatches they will get picked off.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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