Most skilled pilots

[Chris_G]

Which airforce do you think has the best trained pilots? Of course most Western air arms are pretty proficient, but if i had to pick just one it would be the Israeli's. Just because they seem to see action a hell of a lot more than most of the others.

[pbfoot]

Israelis are good but the terrain they fly over is pretty tame and their foes are lacking a bit

[R988]

India would probably rate a mention, they have seen a bit of action themselves over the years and the sheer diversity of equipment they use gives them a good basis of knowledge for developing tactics and their historical record is pretty good.

Just dont mention COPE India

[Nonskimmer]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

Israelis are good but the terrain they fly over is pretty tame and their foes are lacking a bit

They do have lots of hands-on experience though, as do the Indians. Pakistanis too, for that matter.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by R988

India would probably rate a mention, they have seen a bit of action themselves over the years and the sheer diversity of equipment they use gives them a good basis of knowledge for developing tactics and their historical record is pretty good.

Just dont mention COPE India

While I agree about India having a good airforce, the Cope India story has another slant, and I'm not throwing that in becuase I'm from the USA. Althought the IAF's performance was commendable, do you know they were engaging F-15s at a 5 to 1 numerical superiority in their favor?!?! With their SU-27s no wonder why they won!!! This is discussed in detail at ASIG and some of the members posted the referances where this was later revealed....

The IAF has also fared well against the USAF during excersizes....

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

While I agree about India having a good airforce, the Cope India story has another slant, and I'm not throwing that in becuase I'm from the USA. Althought the IAF's performance was commendable, do you know they were engaging F-15s at a 5 to 1 numerical superiority in their favor?!?! With their SU-27s no wonder why they won!!! This is discussed in detail at ASIG and some of the members posted the referances where this was later revealed....

The IAF has also fared well against the USAF during excersizes....

Joe has the IAF and the USAF ever had "Topgun" type mock air combats etc ? If yes how did they turn out? Can you help with this ?

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Hunter368

Joe has the IAF and the USAF ever had "Topgun" type mock air combats etc ? If yes how did they turn out? Can you help with this ?

Yes they have and that is exactly what Cope India is about - the key phrase here is "Dissimilar Aircraft Training," mock combat with a friendly nation who possesses Russian Equipment, the most likely hardware the US will face if challenged in a conflict.

In 2004 several F-15 went over to India and essentially got their butts kicked, but when the actual scenarios were examined the F-15 was being challenged 4 and 5 to one. Now one may say "that isn't fair," but the F-15 is SUPPOSED to take on those numbers and win. One item brought up was the advanced radar found on the Su-27, a reason cited for the F-15s supposively dismal performance

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

Yes they have and that is exactly what Cope India is about - the key phrase here is "Dissimilar Aircraft Training," mock combat with a friendly nation who possesses Russian Equipment, the most likely hardware the US will face if challenged in a conflict.

In 2004 several F-15 went over to India and essentially got their butts kicked, but when the actual scenarios were examined the F-15 was being challenged 4 and 5 to one. Now one may say "that isn't fair," but the F-15 is SUPPOSED to take on those numbers and win. One item brought up was the advanced radar found on the Su-27, a reason cited for the F-15s supposively dismal performance

Really??? wow I thought (heard mostly on USA programs, we all know how unbiased they can be, hehe just a joke at my USA neighbor not serious) how the F-15 has been "THE" fighter in the world, top everything about it. The Su-27 has better radar than the F-15? I thought it was the Caddy of fighters still today.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Hunter368

Really??? wow I thought (heard mostly on USA programs, we all know how unbiased they can be, hehe just a joke at my USA neighbor not serious) how the F-15 has been "THE" fighter in the world, top everything about it. The Su-27 has better radar than the F-15? I thought it was the Caddy of fighters still today.

In some situations the Su-27 is able to exploit the F-15 and depending who you talk to the Su-27 has a more capable radar, however with that said, it doesn't mean the F-15 is outclassed one-on-one, its a matter of the F-15 NOT being able to take on 4 Su-27s at the same time and come out unscathed.

Now with the F-22.......

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i'd still love to see the results of a F/A-22 (still doesn't seem right calling it that) against a Eurofighter.........

[Nonskimmer]

Originally Posted by Hunter368

(heard mostly on USA programs, we all know how unbiased they can be, hehe just a joke at my USA neighbor not serious)

Canadian programs are as bad or worse at times, and that's not a joke.

[Gnomey]

Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass

i'd still love to see the results of a F/A-22 (still doesn't seem right calling it that) against a Eurofighter.........

I would think the F-22 would win, but it would be very interesting to see.

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by Nonskimmer

Canadian programs are as bad or worse at times, and that's not a joke.

I find that rarely in life are people interested in hearing the truth, the real truth. Countries are no different they want to hear what makes them happy allot of the time, not the hard cold truth. I have learned that about people after years of organizational behavior courses and 15 years of managing people in the work place. That is off the subject alittle but the truth. I have found very few people who really want to hear the truth about their performance in a work place.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass

i'd still love to see the results of a F/A-22 (still doesn't seem right calling it that) against a Eurofighter.........

There have been simulations done with both aircraft (Syscom would love that!) The F-22 bettered it up to 4 to 1 in odds favoring the Eurofighter, after that the Eurofighter overwhelmed the F-22...

[the lancaster kicks ass]

do you have any more info on this it sounds interesting?