MV-22 Osprey

[mkloby]

I do know that the Marine program is about a year ahead of the USAF CV-22program. VMX-22 finished a testing program entailing almost 1000 flight hours, and from the actual officers in the MV-22 community, it is on it's way. We shall see how it turns out. I tend to think that it will not be as bad as the naysayers believe...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

It is a mechanical nightmare mkloby...

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

It is a mechanical nightmare mkloby...

We'll see how it turns out in service. Of course, that remains to be seen, and only time will tell. Complex - you bet, but not condemned.

[lesofprimus]

Originally Posted by 2eagles

Frequent part and system failures,

As a pilot or crewman, that part right there sums it up for me....

System Failures??? In a bird like that???

Fu*k that....

[mkloby]

The Marine Squadrons have not had those types of failures for a while now. You have to take magazine articles with some salt - I take the word of the pilots in the squadrons over magazine reports.

[lesofprimus]

So do I....

But that quote is from an Official Report from the Defense Department's Operational Testing Directorate, so it does hold some validity....

And as a question, the fellow pilots that u talked to, did they happen to have any harsh desert condition flight hours???

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by lesofprimus

So do I....

But that quote is from an Official Report from the Defense Department's Operational Testing Directorate, so it does hold some validity....

And as a question, the fellow pilots that u talked to, did they happen to have any harsh desert condition flight hours???

Let me get back to you on the nature/environment of the USMC tests done by VMX-22, because I don't know the exact details...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

American Desert or Middle Eastern Desert. 2 completly different animals.

[lesofprimus]

True true, and since having been in both of them, I rate the desert of the middle east a worse enviornment...

[lesofprimus]

Just got this emailed to me from Military.com

Hoping to re-energize congressional opposition to the Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey, critics of the controversial tilt-rotor aircraft released a study Thursday warning that the aircraft is plagued by inherent design flaws and will endanger U.S. lives when it goes into combat this year.

The study, commissioned by the Center for Defense Information, a Washington think tank, calls for Congress to scrap the V-22 and replace it with a lower-costing helicopter capable of performing similar missions, although it would be slower.

Co-manufactured by Bell Helicopter Textron of Fort Worth and Boeing Helicopters of Ridley Park, Pa., the Osprey was near cancellation early in the decade after four crashes killed 30. Two crashes occurred in 2000, resulting in 23 deaths.

The program has rebounded after a redesign and more than 19,000 hours of flight tests.

It now has strong support in Congress as Marines move toward sending the first V-22 squadrons into combat -- possibly Iraq or Afghanistan -- by the summer.

But the center's study, "V-22: Wonder Weapon or Widow Maker?" warns that the hybrid aircraft still has "operational, aerodynamic and survivability challenges that will prove insurmountable, and lethal, in combat."

"We're trying to alert the system that the problems haven't gone away," said Winslow Wheeler, director of the center's Straus Military Reform Project, which monitors military and national-security issues.

The report prompted a scathing rebuttal from the V-22 manufacturing team and its defenders in the military, who contended that the study rehashed problems that have been corrected.

"It really baffles us as to why this organization would come out with an anti-V-22 diatribe when clearly the aircraft is performing well," Bell-Boeing spokesman Bob Leder said. "Apparently, they just used a lot of out-of-date information -- or disinformation."

Among other points, the study says the V-22 remains susceptible to a dangerous aerodynamic phenomenon known as a vortex ring state, which occurs when a rotor becomes enmeshed in its own downwash and loses lift.

V-22 pilots, under pressure to avoid enemy gunfire, run the risk of triggering a vortex ring by descending too fast under combat conditions, said Lee Gaillard, a Philadelphia science and military writer who authored the report. Rapid descent vertically or at low forward air speed "creates conditions ripe for VRS," the report said.

"If the Osprey goes into combat, it may cause its own casualties," Gaillard said in outlining the report at a Center for Defense Information briefing.

A vortex ring state was blamed for one of the crashes in 2000.

But James Darcy of the Navy's V-22 Joint Program Office said testing and review have proven that the V-22 is far less vulnerable to vortex rings than traditional helicopters and can easily speed through the turbulent air by tilting the engines forward.

The Marine Corps plans to buy 360 MV-22s to replace aging helicopters to speed troops and supplies into combat.

The Air Force plans to buy 50 CV-22s for special operations, and the Navy plans to buy 48 Ospreys for rescue operations.

[Matt308]

Latest AvWeek has an article on the nextgen helicopter technology. Apparently, "new technology" making use of single shaft dual counter-rotating rotors and pusher propellers is providing a 250mph class helicopter. That's about 45mph faster than current max design speed for some helicopters (I think the CH-47 has a 200+mph max speed). While that did not strike me as "new technology" (counter rotating rotors are currently used by Kaman and Kamov and pusher technology is has been around since late 40s), it is interesting that this validation was published.

AvWeek also posted funded V-22 airframes through 2011, I think. Looked to be about 120 or so if I recall correctly.

[mkloby]

Couldn't get any specifics regarding the desert package from the USMC opeval of the MV-22. There were extensive desert trials done - as well as other joint exercises. I called up a buddy that's a CH-46E guy, currently in the Fleet Replacement Squadron out at Camp Pendleton, because some of the higher ups there are already qualified in the MV-22. I'll see what he says when he gets back to me.

To the best of my knowledge, the Navy isn't going to go ahead with their HV-22 program, but I could be wrong.

We may just have to wait to see how the maintainability fares in the desert when they deploy the Thunder Chickens to Iraq the end of this year or 2008...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

There was an artical in the Stars and Stripes a few days ago about the MV-22. It was saying that there are many people in the Osprey Program who do not think that it is ready to go into service. It is still plauged with problems and it would be deadly to put her into service. Aparantly the DOD really wants it to go into Service immediatly and is blowing them off.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

There was an artical in the Stars and Stripes a few days ago about the MV-22. It was saying that there are many people in the Osprey Program who do not think that it is ready to go into service. It is still plauged with problems and it would be deadly to put her into service. Aparantly the DOD really wants it to go into Service immediatly and is blowing them off.

I wonder if those in the DOD who are trying to push it through would be so keen if they were the ones flying in it. When desk jockeys start to impose their will on the engineers and experts I start to worry.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I think it will turn out to be a great aircraft, but I think it needs to be tested some more and worked on. Also the guys that are going to fix it need a pay raise.