 | Oh, wow| Modern Discuss Oh, wow in the Other Eras forums; The Sun Online - News: Fury at RAF Kamikaze plan
Don't even know what to say to that.... |
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04-03-2007, 11:27 AM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas
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Country:  | Oh, wow
__________________ "I had ten rockets on board, and as I wasn't particularly fond of head-on attacks, I salvoed the whole lot at him. The rockets didn't hit him but but they must have scared the bejesus out of him, for he did a steep turn to starboard... I let him have the full blast, all eight fifty-calibers. I had never seen an aircraft completely disintegrate in the air the way this Me-110 did..."
Bill Dunn, 406th Fighter Group 
Matt | 
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04-03-2007, 11:36 AM
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#2 | | aka Dickcheese
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
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Country: | Matt, its the Sun. Kinda like our National Inquirer. 
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04-03-2007, 03:07 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas
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Country: | Well after feeling really dumb for a second or two, I found it on the BBC website- BBC NEWS | UK | RAF pilots hear kamikaze scenario
__________________ "I had ten rockets on board, and as I wasn't particularly fond of head-on attacks, I salvoed the whole lot at him. The rockets didn't hit him but but they must have scared the bejesus out of him, for he did a steep turn to starboard... I let him have the full blast, all eight fifty-calibers. I had never seen an aircraft completely disintegrate in the air the way this Me-110 did..."
Bill Dunn, 406th Fighter Group
Matt | |
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04-03-2007, 03:48 PM
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#4 | | aka Dickcheese
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
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Country: | Oh c'mon. A commander asking his pilots to fly a $30M aircraft and equally expensive pilot to kill a few ragheads in a truck. Don't believe it for one second.
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Marines don't have that problem."
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04-03-2007, 04:02 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colorado, USA
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Country: | Well, if Britain herself was brought to desperate straits.......bombarded on all sides, being invaded, is it possible they would consider doing it? If there was few options left?
The Japanese did it, the Germans were seriously thinking about it, and I bet some really patriotic American pilot could do it too.
But I would rather pilots played for kills, not killing themselves of course.
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04-03-2007, 04:13 PM
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#6 | | aka Dickcheese
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
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Country: | Maybe I didn't read the article close enough. But the scenario was a hypothetical without no real constraints. Just a "Hey, if there were a truckload of badguys and I asked you to kill yourself by crashing into them, would you do it?" type scenario. Well hell no!!
Besides, you don't train for "There's a raghead with an atomic bomb in a suitcase in downtown London. Your the only GR.7 left alive, you have no ordnance nor ammo. I ask you to make the ultimate sacrifice for God, Queen and Country. Would you do it?"
Right. I would love to see that powere point presentation in the MoD war doctrine. And now for something completely different. The Larch. The Larch.
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Marines don't have that problem."
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04-08-2007, 08:38 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
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Country: | Seems to have been blown out of all proportion...
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04-08-2007, 08:44 PM
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#8 | | Senior Member
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Country:  | It was just a passing comment at an exercise, the idea existed in the Cold War - What if you were the only interceptor left, would you crash into the Soviet bomber carrying a nuclear bomb to London?
The fact is, the newspapers just wanted a story.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | |
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04-08-2007, 08:46 PM
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#9 | | Senior Member
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Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by plan_D  It was just a passing comment at an exercise, the idea existed in the Cold War - What if you were the only interceptor left, would you crash into the Soviet bomber carrying a nuclear bomb to London?
The fact is, the newspapers just wanted a story. | No!!! Really!!!
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04-08-2007, 08:47 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
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Country: | Fine, I'm lying. We actually train our pilots to crash into USN ships.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club. | |
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04-08-2007, 08:48 PM
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#11 | | Senior Member
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Country: | Quote:
Originally Posted by plan_D Fine, I'm lying. We actually train our pilots to crash into USN ships. | I thought that was just how you guys did your carrier landings
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04-08-2007, 08:50 PM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Country: | Well, we did train the U.S how to do 'em ... no wonder there's so many pictures of crashed Hellcats on decks. 
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club. | |
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04-09-2007, 11:11 AM
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#13 | | Senior Member
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Country: | I can see it as an exercise to make higher ups consider the possibility they are going to order their men on a mission that was going to result in their deaths. Kind of a Post Graduate Course for Flag Rank. Ok, I'm fine with that.
But if General (or Admiral) so and so comes up to me and says, "Lt. Shatz, I want you to take your jet up and crash it into the enemy, probably killing yourself in the process." My response would be, "And what is plan B?". Seriously, I don't mind the long odds or getting cornered. I do mind being told to die is the only option from the start.
In short, if General So and So is so eager to get himself killed, fine, there's the airplane, have at it. | |
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04-09-2007, 02:42 PM
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#14 | | aka Dickcheese
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,783
Country: | Bottomline is you don't train for that kind of stuff in peacetime. That's armchair planning done by "never seen a war" geeks confined to bunker assignment popping amphetamines on day 6 of the tweaking binger.
Either that or a passing comment over beers at the officer's club.
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"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
Marines don't have that problem."
-- Ronald Reagan Master of Duplicate Posts | |
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04-10-2007, 10:34 PM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Queensland
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Country:  | It certainly starts to seem like a questioning on the abilities of the new aircraft if the RAF is starting to think about suicide attacks. It also raises the question of whether that is playing right into their hands by allowing them in future to say that the RAF does it, and we do our suicide attacks. Also as said how would you identify the target in the first place? If it is a static target then there is really no need for a suicide raid, and if it is a moving target, then there is an ultra large margin for error... Besides really, how often is it going to happen that an RAF pilot in this day and age would use up all their ammunition, considering the firing engagement rules that these pilots abide by? Very rarely I would assume. Bad idea all round. What do people think about my ideas? | |
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