 | Phoenix Missle?| Modern Discuss Phoenix Missle? in the Other Eras forums; There are a ton of reasons to love the F-14. My top reason was the Phoenix Missile.
I assume ... |
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08-17-2007, 05:42 PM
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#1 | | Senior Member
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Country:  | Phoenix Missle?
There are a ton of reasons to love the F-14. My top reason was the Phoenix Missile.
I assume that it is retired too? what is the current long range king, of any nation, if the phoenix is defunct?
I cant believe they would retire it unless it was just too expensive and unreliable. I'd like to see a B-1 loaded with 30 phoenix missiles....
Lure a couple dozen of the Iranian air force aloft, have a couple B-1's fire their phoenix missiles and afterburn for home. Not as much fun as a knife fight but with a range of 120 miles, it has to have some use...
Is the phoenix too large for the Predator?
I find it easy to believe that a phoenix costs more than many of the aircraft they're likely to shoot down
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08-17-2007, 06:28 PM
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#2 | | Senior Member
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Country:  | Maybe Iranian F-14 would fire their own Phoenix. | |
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08-17-2007, 06:34 PM
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#3 | | Der Crewchief
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Country:  | The only aircraft that was capable of firing the Pheonix was the F-14. Because of this the US Navy no longer uses the Pheonix.
I am not sure if there is even a plan to incorporate the Pheonix into any other aircraft. I doubt it.
I am sure the Iranians still have a few but I doubt they are in decent shape and probably would not work. I know the US Maint. Techs that were working in Iran sabotaged the Iranian 14s before they left.
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08-17-2007, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by The Basket  Maybe Iranian F-14 would fire their own Phoenix. | They've probably converted them all to hookahs by now. Even if the missiles will fire, i doubt they have the fire control needed.
__________________ “Despite the threat of SAMs and increasing visibility on 31 January 1991, one gunship opted to stay and continue to protect the Marines. A SAM subsequently shot down this AC-130H, call sign Spirit 03. All 14 crew members of Spirit 03 perished." www.NewMediaPerspective.com | |
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08-17-2007, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet The only aircraft that was capable of firing the Pheonix was the F-14. Because of this the US Navy no longer uses the Pheonix.
I am not sure if there is even a plan to incorporate the Pheonix into any other aircraft. I doubt it.
I am sure the Iranians still have a few but I doubt they are in decent shape and probably would not work. I know the US Maint. Techs that were working in Iran sabotaged the Iranian 14s before they left. |
Why is the Tomcat the only one that can fire the phoenix ?
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08-17-2007, 07:34 PM
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#6 | | Senior Member
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Country: | 6 targets simultaneously... 120 miles...
when will we see a successor? AIM-54 Phoenix - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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__________________ “Despite the threat of SAMs and increasing visibility on 31 January 1991, one gunship opted to stay and continue to protect the Marines. A SAM subsequently shot down this AC-130H, call sign Spirit 03. All 14 crew members of Spirit 03 perished." www.NewMediaPerspective.com | |
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08-18-2007, 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Aussie1001 Why is the Tomcat the only one that can fire the phoenix ? | The AIM-54 Phoenix was only one part of the "weapons system" installed on the F-14. The F-14 was, essentially, built around the AWG-9 analog radar; you can think of the Tomcat as merely an aerial platform for the AWG-9 radar system and the Phoenix. When the AWG-9 first came out (and for a long time afterwards), it was the most powerful radar system in the world. The USAF did not foresee the necessity of being able to hit a target 100 miles out, that was more important when you are trying to defend the fleet from pesky Soviet attack aircraft; hence, the Tomcat.
And, yes, the Phoenix was actually retired before the F-14 was, around 2000, I believe. The Iranians probably have a few still laying around, but I doubt they're very reliable at this point; they're just as likely to explode on launch as actually hit anything. I'm pretty sure the avionics, if not the motor, are shot by now. The Iranians only use their (few) F-14's as stand-off AWACs platforms, thanks to it's incredibly powerful radar, and direct less capable fighters (mostly MiG-29's) to their target(s). | |
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08-18-2007, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by SoD Stitch The AIM-54 Phoenix was only one part of the "weapons system" installed on the F-14. The F-14 was, essentially, built around the AWG-9 analog radar; you can think of the Tomcat as merely an aerial platform for the AWG-9 radar system and the Phoenix. | Was the Phoenix and AWG-9 a progression from the proposed F-6D's Eagle and APQ-81? I've read that the range of the Eagle was to be 115 miles. 
Last edited by Graeme : 08-18-2007 at 08:12 AM.
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08-19-2007, 01:17 PM
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#9 | | aka Dickcheese
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Country: | Don't know the answer to that one. But the BVRAAM and other hypersonic AAMs being developed using advanced air breathing motors (ramjets) allow for longer ranges and better terminal performance.
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08-19-2007, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Graeme Was the Phoenix and AWG-9 a progression from the proposed F-6D's Eagle and APQ-81? I've read that the range of the Eagle was to be 115 miles. | Actually, no; the missle (the Phoenix AIM-54) was a development of the GAR-9/AIM-47, which was originally designed to be used with the F-12A AMI (Advanced Manned Interceptor), an interceptor version of the SR-71 "Blackbird" (yeah, I know, it would've been an incredible interceptor, probably the best ever developed, but politics killed it). The major difference between the AIM-47 and the Phoenix was the fact that the AIM-47 used a 250 KT nuclear warhead with a semi-active radar seeker, and the Phoenix used conventional explosives with a fully-active radar seeker (albeit with analog avionics; the AIM-54C, the latest, and last, version of the Phoenix, had digital avionics).
And the AWG-9 was a further development (like the AIM-47) of the YF-12A's AN/ASG-18 pulse-doppler radar. So, both programs were originally USAF projects that morphed into Navy programs. 
Last edited by SoD Stitch : 08-19-2007 at 10:28 PM.
Reason: Nomenclature
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08-19-2007, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt308 Don't know the answer to that one. But the BVRAAM and other hypersonic AAMs being developed using advanced air breathing motors (ramjets) allow for longer ranges and better terminal performance. | That introduces other questions. Unless there have bee some breakthroughs, the Ram effect only takes place at hyper sonic speeds. That means a ramjet powered missile would have to be launched by a platform traveling fast or it would have to have its own rockets capable of boosting it to speeds in which the ramjet will take place.
Both scenarios are limiting.
Although, a ramjet means you could launch a missile in Idaho and hit a plane in Iran.
__________________ “Despite the threat of SAMs and increasing visibility on 31 January 1991, one gunship opted to stay and continue to protect the Marines. A SAM subsequently shot down this AC-130H, call sign Spirit 03. All 14 crew members of Spirit 03 perished." www.NewMediaPerspective.com | |
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08-19-2007, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by comiso90 That introduces other questions. Unless there have bee some breakthroughs, the Ram effect only takes place at hyper sonic speeds. That means a ramjet powered missile would have to be launched by a platform traveling fast or it would have to have its own rockets capable of boosting it to speeds in which the ramjet will take place.
Both scenarios are limiting.
Although, a ramjet means you could launch a missile in Idaho and hit a plane in Iran. | This is true; although the MBDA Meteor (which is what I assume we're talking about) is not a true ramjet. The missle contains an integral booster rocket and a "TDR", or throttleable ducted rocket, not a ramjet. Once the missle is up to speed on the rocket propulsion (approx. Mach 2), the TDR takes over and propels the missle to it's target.
As for the "launch a missle in Idaho and hit a plane in Iran" scenario, the missle is, of course, limited by how much fuel it can carry; I doubt any missle, no matter how efficient, could carry enough fuel to make it halfway around the world, never mind how it gets guided there. | |
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08-19-2007, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SoD Stitch As for the "launch a missle in Idaho and hit a plane in Iran" scenario, the missle is, of course, limited by how much fuel it can carry; I doubt any missle, no matter how efficient, could carry enough fuel to make it halfway around the world, never mind how it gets guided there. | Isnt it true that if you get a ram jet flying high enough and fast enough, they need very little fuel?
scramjet?
__________________ “Despite the threat of SAMs and increasing visibility on 31 January 1991, one gunship opted to stay and continue to protect the Marines. A SAM subsequently shot down this AC-130H, call sign Spirit 03. All 14 crew members of Spirit 03 perished." www.NewMediaPerspective.com | |
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08-19-2007, 08:04 PM
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#14 | | Senior Member
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Country: | Australia's first RAMJET.
 COMISO!..Just the man to settle a gentlemans dispute (with an 80 year old man). He's trying to convince me that an American wallet is WIDER than an Australians, because your 'green bills' are also wider(?) This fifty note is 65mm wide.
TRUE/FALSE? | |
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08-19-2007, 08:19 PM
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#15 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Graeme COMISO!..Just the man to settle a gentlemans dispute (with an 80 year old man). He's trying to convince me that an American wallet is WIDER than an Australians, because your 'green bills' are also wider(?) This fifty note is 65mm wide.
TRUE/FALSE? | Here is the most recent aussie bill (i dont see a date on it!) i have next to an american bill.
Ours are a touch longer buy yours is wider. I'm not sure it's enough to influence wallet design.
Does that help?
... I have German and Russian notes pre 1920 that are huge!
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__________________ “Despite the threat of SAMs and increasing visibility on 31 January 1991, one gunship opted to stay and continue to protect the Marines. A SAM subsequently shot down this AC-130H, call sign Spirit 03. All 14 crew members of Spirit 03 perished." www.NewMediaPerspective.com
Last edited by comiso90 : 08-19-2007 at 08:23 PM.
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