Raptors wield 'unfair' advantage at Red Flag

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I dont see this happening on a full scale level for atleast another 50 plus years. I see them start testing the technology in the near future but it wont end manned air supperiority for many years to come.

[merlin]

Ref the mention of the 'foreign pilots in Blue Force' in the start of this thread, I hope there weren't any Scots or Welsh pilots in the group from the RAF!? I don't think they will appreciate being referred to as English!
The RAF is not an English Air Force it is a British Air Force. One wonders if the writer needs a political lesson (the seat in the UN is under the name of United Kingdom not England) or just geography - a strange map that just states 'England'.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by merlin

Ref the mention of the 'foreign pilots in Blue Force' in the start of this thread, I hope there weren't any Scots or Welsh pilots in the group from the RAF!? I don't think they will appreciate being referred to as English!
The RAF is not an English Air Force it is a British Air Force. One wonders if the writer needs a political lesson (the seat in the UN is under the name of United Kingdom not England) or just geography - a strange map that just states 'England'.

Well, here's the guy to write to....

"Tech. Sgt. Russell Wicke
Air Combat Command Public Affairs"

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Oh brother lets not make this a national arguement.

[HealzDevo]

I question whether we will ever get robotic combat aircraft. The main problem being that a robotic combat aircraft has a set routine programmed into it. There is no such thing as real artificial intelligence yet that can equal the presence of a pilot. For certain missions like spying a robot can do the job very well. Bombing difficult areas perhaps. But you will always need the pilot and their ability to apply their training to the situation at hand. Just look at that robotic vehicle race to see the problems and yet you are saying that a robot fighter could be effectively used? Even on a radio-controlled line that leaves too much scope for an enemy to black-out the control method. GPS was thought to be unjammable right? Wrong and it is the same with semi-autonomous robotic fighters. So it will be 2500 if at all before a robotic fighter aircraft makes its first appearance on the battlefield. This is being extremely short-term considering how much research has been going on in artificial intelligence and how little progress has really been made. In short robots at the moment lack the same ability to assess a situation that a human does and deal with it as a unique situation in its own merit.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

With future technology they wont have a set routine and will be able tor react to different situations.

[Matt308]

Don't kid yourself, Healz. Current generation UAS/UAV/UCAV allow for virtual autonomy. Only mission parameters are input and the execution is much more highly autonomous than you might suspect. In fact, the largest hurdle to turning them loose is politics and blue-on-blue casualties. These are not just fancy RC airplanes.

[comiso90]

>>"I can't see the [expletive deleted] thing," said RAAF Squadron Leader Stephen Chappell, exchange F-15 pilot in the 65th Aggressor Squadron. "It won't let me put a weapons system on it, even when I can see it visually through the canopy. [Flying against the F-22] annoys the hell out of me."<<


LOL

I bet if we tried hard enough, we could buy a couple SU-27's. Now THAT would be a fun aggressor.

[Glider]

What I wouldn't give to be there when the Typhoon goes up against the F22. At BVR the F22 will have a clear advantage but in the visual arena it should be close.

[Matt308]

I would say the within visual and a guns fight, the Typhoon will have the advantage. Reports are that the F-15 is more maneuverable than F-22. Only advantage is thrust vectoring. So high off bore axis shots may be the dance of the day.

[comiso90]

Originally Posted by Matt308

I would say the within visual and a guns fight, the Typhoon will have the advantage. Reports are that the F-15 is more maneuverable than F-22. Only advantage is thrust vectoring. So high off bore axis shots may be the dance of the day.

I hope we never made the same aerial doctrine mistakes we made in viet nam i.e. to name a few, completely disreguarding maneuverability, and eliminating guns from fighters, but I have to believe that maneuverability visual or not will rarely carry the day in 21st century air combat.

That is until any adversary perfects electronic counter measures and EMP pulses to the degree that any avionics, guidance or electronic weapons systems are usless.

[Matt308]

Didn't wish to imply that the F-22 was a dog. Far from it. However, it's abilities brought about by thrust vectoring, AIM-9X and helmet synthetic vision/HUD make normal tactics both by it and against it different. Latest flight exercises resulted in an F-22 simulated loss. However, adversaries were prebriefed on F-22 tactics and flight profiles beforehand. It's not invincible, surely, but it does raise the loss ration a bit, eh?

[the lancaster kicks ass]

a strange map that just states 'England'

you can always tell a mep drawn by a Cornishman- we label Cornwall and England separately

and the way i see it in the current climate of trying to avoid blue on blue all but eliminates BVR in all but the biggest conflicts, if the aircraft you're shooting at hasn't been identified as the enemy but you fire a missile at it from many miles away and it turns out to be an airliner or something then it's political suicide, most of the time the PILOT not an automated computer would have to get a visual ID before firing, and they're talking up the F-22, but aren't they saying all this stuff already about the much cheaper F-35? i agree that America especially needs a dedicated air superiority fighter, but do you not think they're talking it up a little too much because they've realised that the F-35's capabilities aren't that far behind and they need to justify the expense of the F-22?

[HealzDevo]

Good question. Perhaps they might be. I remain as I said a little bit sceptical about their abilities to tell you the truth. We have heard a lot about some successful missions but what were the failures like...

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by HealzDevo

but what were the failures like...

Few, very few....