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Old 07-26-2008, 06:29 PM   #31
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No you got me. The Il-18 and L-188 are night and day.
lol you've made my day! Checked the wikipedia, right?
Now you' re really the first one who suggests THAT. They're so god***mn similar! They both have 4 turboprop engines and are about the same size (actually I believe the Il-18 is about 10 meters longer). A copy ,for sure , although the maiden flight was some six or seven months earlier. These treacherous Russians copied at the same time the Lockheed Electra, Bristol Britannia and a Vickers Viscount! Shame on them!
Now really this discussion looses somehow in its seriousness
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Old 07-26-2008, 06:34 PM   #32
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On the last sentence we agree.
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Old 07-26-2008, 06:45 PM   #33
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I am sorry Ramirezzz, but anyone who thinks the Buran was not a copy of the Space Shuttle is living a dream. There are just to many similiarities.
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Old 07-26-2008, 06:57 PM   #34
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Ramirezzz, where in Russia do you live? Did you get to see the Russian Knights celebration this year?
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Old 07-26-2008, 09:41 PM   #35
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I would think he lives in Russia......
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Old 07-26-2008, 09:50 PM   #36
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Last edited by Matt308; 07-26-2008 at 09:51 PM. Reason: Deleted because of too caustic of a response.
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Old 07-26-2008, 09:52 PM   #37
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He thinks all of Russias planes that are very similar....not saying complete copies are supeior to US planes but I am just gonna stop saying anything...lol all I wanted to know was is the Antonov 124 smaller then the Antonov 225
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Old 07-26-2008, 09:57 PM   #38
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No you didn't you asked if the An-224 was smaller than the An-225. We have long memories here Engineer.
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Old 07-27-2008, 02:22 AM   #39
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He thinks all of Russias planes that are very similar....not saying complete copies are supeior to US planes but I am just gonna stop saying anything...lol all I wanted to know was is the Antonov 124 smaller then the Antonov 225
Yes in this case, that would probably be wise...
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Old 07-27-2008, 03:56 AM   #40
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I am sorry Ramirezzz, but anyone who thinks the Buran was not a copy of the Space Shuttle is living a dream. There are just to many similiarities.

ok Adler I've provided about 20 or more arguments why it's not a copy. I've provided you with some of the best literature ever available online which contradicts your statement. of some The most serious Soviet space history researchers , both Russian and foreign, do not consider it as a copy as well. I've pointed out that there're enough vehicles out there which are very similar to their counterpart as well - Boeing 2707 as the best example of that.
But we couldn't agree even on what should be considered as a copy - a vehicle itself or a concept/idea.
I believe though your opinion as well as mine in a certain degree is somehow poisoned by some "ideological" unobjectivity, so the consensus is virtually impossible regardless how many arguments I'll provide. Dann belassn wir's dabei


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Ramirezzz, where in Russia do you live?
Moscow city.
Quote:
Did you get to see the Russian Knights celebration this year?
Yeah I saw them overflyin' the Red Square at 9. of May on the Victory Day and last year at MAKS-2007 airshow in Ramenskoe , some 15 kilometers from Moscow

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He thinks all of Russias planes that are very similar....

not saying complete copies
oh nooo, another one..
Quote:
are supeior to US planes
where did I say that?

Gents, I do suggest we'll close our discussion regarding alleged Soviet copying of Buran and some other planes by now unless you'll come with some serious arguments.

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Old 07-27-2008, 08:50 AM   #41
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Gents, I do suggest we'll close our discussion regarding alleged Soviet copying of Buran and some other planes by now unless you'll come with some serious arguments.
Just like you, we have posted info from our side of the world that says differently. You consider it propoganda, we consider your info propoganda. It is a dead issue.
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Old 07-27-2008, 09:24 AM   #42
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Just like you, we have posted info from our side of the world that says differently. You consider it propoganda, we consider your info propoganda. It is a dead issue.
negative, I didn't say a NY Times article from 1988 is a propaganda. It's only a incompetent article from some mass media which lacks both of any useful information and comptence. No way a historical research could be done with the help of some newspaper article even from such solid newspaper like NY Times.
Now on the other side you've a internet site with a compilation of some latest researches done in Russia on that issue, updated , very detailed ond very informative - and you call it a propaganda, probably without translating a word. How's that Adler? Only because it was written by some Russian autors? It's kind of a strange approach..
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Old 07-27-2008, 09:30 AM   #43
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negative, I didn't say a NY Times article from 1988 is a propaganda. It's only a incompetent article from some mass media which lacks both of any useful information and comptence. No way a historical research could be done with the help of some newspaper article even from such solid newspaper like NY Times.
Now on the other side you've a internet site with a compilation of some latest researches done in Russia on that issue, updated , very detailed ond very informative - and you call it a propaganda, probably without translating a word. How's that Adler? Only because it was written by some Russian autors? It's kind of a strange approach..
The artical had quotes from American scientist and aviation officials from that time.

As for the Soviet articals. I happen to be very skeptical about anything from the Soviets during that time. Sorry but I dont take a lot of their stuff with a grain of salt.
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Old 07-27-2008, 03:19 PM   #44
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Trust the internet. I like that one.
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Old 07-27-2008, 04:03 PM   #45
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NASA favoured an air-launched vehicle but the Space Shuttle was favoured because it was big and expensive and secured jobs!

The Soviets would have also known that an air-launched vehicle would also be superior but they copied it anyway.

Air launched X-15 style if you were wondering.
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