The top 10 combat rifles

[Soren]

wrong again the US used the Canadian Sylabus after the US forces had deemed the sniper redundant in the early 70's they omce again reinstaed the sniper training using the Canadian model

Which is nearly a true copy of the German program: Read Peter Senich's book.

[Soren]

German sniper training was much ahead of its day and Germany was also the first country to have actual Sniper Schools for training snipers, which was a long affair:

YouTube - Der Deutsche Scharfschütze 1944 English-German-Audio Part 1
YouTube - Der Deutsche Scharfschütze 1944 English-German-Audio Part 2
YouTube - Der Deutsche Scharfschütze 1944 English-German-Audio Part 3
YouTube - Der Deutsche Scharfschütze 1944 English-German-Audio Part 4
YouTube - Der Deutsche Scharfschütze 1944 English-German-Audio Part 5
YouTube - Der Deutsche Scharfschütze 1944 English-German-Audio Part 6
YouTube - Der Deutsche Scharfschütze 1944 English-German-Audio Part 7

[Soren]

A little more showing some varius training exercises:
YouTube - Der Deutsche Scharfschütze

[Soren]

Show us your photographs of British troops using the Mauser as a preference to the Lee Enfield.

In preference ?? Err, how the heck are you gonna tell that from a picture ?

Ever seen a German soldier with a Lee Enfield ?? NO.

Here's an American GI with a K98k:

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Soren you can't tell from that pic if that US Soldier took that Mauser so that he could use it.

In fact I seriously doubt he took it so that he could use it.

Why?

Look at his right shoulder and what is slung over it. It is is his personal rifle and he is holding the Mauser at port arms.

Why?

Because he picked up the Mauser and was having a photo taken with it. The soldier was not going to walk around with 2 rifles for the hell of it.

That picture is no evidence at all! Come on you are smarter than that!

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by Glider

The British because the Lee Enfield was a better rifle. With a faster rate of fire and double the ammunition it had clear advantages.

The SMLE didn`t have a faster rate of fire. It may have been more suitable for fast firing than the old WW1 Mauser with its straight bolt handle (which OTOH was ballistically superior), the Kar98 which had a similiar bent bolt handle. Practical rate of fire was the same.

As to double the ammuniton, I fail to see the point. The SMLE magazine holds 10 rounds, but it was fed by the same 5-round clips as the Mauser, Mosin, Springfield etc. I don`t see much difference between inserting two five-round clips and then firing 10 shots, or firing 5 shots, insert a five-round clip, fire 5 shots again, insert another five-round clip. In practical terms, the second clip is probably much more difficult to insert into the SMLE, given you already have rounds in the magazine. More than five rounds in these clip fed bolt action rifles do not seem to have gained any popularity with designers and soldiers - for the WW1 Mauser Gewehr 98, the Germans introduced a 20-round magazine, but it was abandoned.

Infantry soldier carried apprx. the same number of rifle rounds with them, ie. 45 to 60.

As to the merits of the two design, IMHO the extreme success of the Mauser 98 based bolt action rifle systems speaks for itself. As I said, it was the AK of its time. No country that had any say in it choose the SMLE over it, the latter is pretty much restricted to the British Empire and its former colonies/dominions. Even the British wanted it before WW1 over the SMLE, leading to their Pattern 13 rifles with the Mauser bolt.

As to using enemy weapons, ammo is a big consideration. British troops could pick up an MP 40 and use it without problem, their Sten fired the same 9mm Parabellum round; the bolt action rifles OTOH fired completely different rounds.

[pbfoot]

May I ask Soren what subject your not on expert on , it isn't aerodynamics,artlilery, submarines , armour ,jet propulsion ,please let me know as i feel insignificant with your overpowering intellect

[Soren]

Adler, like I said: how the heck are you gonna tell that from a picture ??

I have pictures of German soldiers running around with US M1 carbines. Why ? Because they were low on ammo ofcourse and so they'd happily grab an enemy weapon in order to be able to defend themselves. Got pictures of Germans carrying Sten guns as-well, a weapon which wasn't exactly known as a prize winner.

The point however is that Soldiers from all sides took and used each other's weapons, sometimes because they prefered the other weapon but most oftenly because they had no more amo for their own and there always was plenty of enemy ammo around.

[Soren]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

May I ask Soren what subject your not on expert on , it isn't aerodynamics,artlilery, submarines , armour ,jet propulsion ,please let me know as i feel insignificant with your overpowering intellect

Expert ? Have I ever claimed to be an expert in all of these fields or even one of them ??

Quit the bullshit pbfoot.

[Glider]

I think this site will be of interest going into detail of German Snipers. What I find interesting is that the second highest scoring German Sniper used a captured Russian snipers rifle.
Also the G43 didn't have a good reputation in this field and 600 mtrs was the normal maximum range for the vast majority.

Snipers Paradise

[Soren]

Sepp Allerberger used the captured Nagant only for two years Glider, he then got accepted for Sniper training and recieved the K98k which he btw says himself was the best.

Oh and note that Hetzenauer could hit a standing man at 800m with 100% guarantee, pretty darn good with a six power scope!

As for the G43, well it's a semi auto rifle and semi autos are inherently less accurate than bolt action rifles which have far less moving parts. The cycling mechanism alone decreases accuracy.

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by Soren

Expert ? Have I ever claimed to be an expert in all of these fields ??

Quit the bullshit pbfoot.

every time you talk you claim to be the expert I've never read a statement were you say , I'm not sure or I may be mistaken or anything akin to that

[Soren]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

every time you talk you claim to be the expert I've never read a statement were you say , I'm not sure or I may be mistaken or anything akin to that

Well here's some advice for you then: Read my posts.

I have never claimed to be an expert in any of those fields pbfoot, and I challenge you to find just a single time where I announced myself an expert on any of those subjects.

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by Soren

Well here's some advice for you then: Read my posts.

I have never claimed to be an expert in any of those fields pbfoot, and I challenge you to find just a single time where I announced myself an expert on any of those subjects.

read your own posts I'm punished everytime I do

[Glider]

Kaufaust Re the rate of fire a few quotes I would appreciate any example from yourself supporting your claim that the K98 was as fast.

It was estimated that the highly trained British Expeditionary Force that arrived in France in September 1914, were able to fire 15 rounds per minute. The Lee-Enfield could be aimed accurately over about 600 metres but could still kill someone over 1,400 metres away. Lee Enfield Rifle

Much to everyone’s surprise, the S.M.L.E. turned out to be an excellent combat rifle. The British troops, now superbly trained in musketry (particularly accurate rapid fire), were handing out a thorough drubbing to the German infantry. On occasion, the Germans believed themselves to be under machine gun fire, such was the accuracy and rapidity of the rifle fire directed at them.

With the outbreak of the Great war British troops were still armed with the "poor" SMLE Mk.III rifles, which soon turned far from any "poor", giving some hard time to the Germans. In fact, the SMLE Mk.III was a really good rifle, quite accurate, reliable and suitable for rapid and accurate firing. British soldiers were rigorously trained for both individual and volley fire marksmanship, and were routinely capable of firing 30 aimed shots per minute, which was quite a rate of fire for any non-automatic rifle.

British Commonwealth forces used the Lee Enfield Mark 4 as their main rifle. Although bolt action, its locking mechanism made it the fastest bolt action rifle in the world. Its long service also permitted its design to be optimized over time to make it very rugged and reliable.
The trained soldier could fire 30 aimed rounds at a target 200 meters in one minute (known as "the mad minute").

Re your comment on the ammunition capacity. Are you really telling me that you wouldn't prefer to go into action with 10 rounds in your rifle instead of 5 rounds. Because if you are I would ask you to find anyone to support that view.

Re your comment about the British wanting the Walther version this was considered but disregarded as the Lee Enfield proved itself.

If the Lee Enfield was so poor then why was the Sniper version in use until the 1980's remembering that the British always put a high premium on accuracy and sniper skills.