The top 10 combat rifles

[trackend]

My brother was a qualified gunsmith for some years working for Leech and sons of Chelmsford (sadly now no longer in business) although he worked mainly in the sporting weapon field producing tailor made furniture for gaming pieces he did work on historic collections and in his opinion of the standard issued army bolt action rifles the SMLE was the best engineered weapon
For a mass produced rifle with consistancy in accuracy and quality of finish.

[parsifal]

Someone also made comment about indifferent quality of ammunition having a great risk of exploding the enfield. In twenty years of working around them, i have never seen a single failure of the gun due to poor ammunition. There are only be two possibilities arising from that

1) I have been incredibly lucky and not encountered bad ammunition
2) The enfield is more resistant to bad ammunition than the claim would suggest

In addition the enfield was incredibly strong as its performace in the jungle during the war would surely suggest. There were numerous instances of rifles being fired, after the barrels were completely fouled by mud and water. If the weapon was unreliable, it was hardly ever reported by the troops using it.

For that matter,neither did the Japanese, who were using the arisaka, essentially a modified Mauser action. My opinion is that each rifle was very similar in terms of reliability. However several of the posts on other sites report that the Mauser did on occasion jam up in the snow, because the bolt was machined to too finer tolerances. I cant confirm that, but it was reported on several of the sites that I visited

[renrich]

Nice work, Glider! I remembered reading about the good rifle work of the "Old Contemptibles" in 1914 but could not remember where I read it. Perhaps in Tuchman's "Guns of August?" The "Old Contemptibles" were the British regulars in 1914, getting their nickname when the Kaiser called them "that contemptible little army." Most were gone by 1915.

[Soren]

Glider,

The SMLE doesn't have a habbit of blowing up, that's not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that if you use to highly powered ammunition it WILL blow up, the action simply can't take very high pressures. That is one of the reasons the M98 action is so popular, you can load rounds to such high pressures that the cartridge will crack (approx. 68,000 psi), and the M98 still holds no sweat and safely vents the escaping gasses. Like I said you can weld the barrel shut and the action takes in no problem - a SMLE will blow up in your face in such a scenario.

German snipers had access to special batches of ammunition which was of a higher quality than normal ammo to ensure accuracy.

Err, no. Some Snipers "stole" (Besorgen) higher powered V-patr. (V = Verbesserte = Improved) used by the LW for an extra 150m of effective range, but the quality of the round was the same, excellent, the only difference being that the V-patr. featured a more potent propellant charge.

[Soren]

Your point says that is is a good hunting rifle, thats all. I am just reporting what other posts are saying. You should take your grievances up with the author.

Parsifal not only hunting rifles also military rifles!

The M98 has been massed produced since its introduction and nearly every bolt action sniper rifle, hunting rifle & sporting rifle today are of the same design, THAT speaks for itself.

Another post that i read said that with regard to the big three BAs,

1) The US produced a target rifle
2) The Germans produced a sporting rifle
3) The British produced a combat rifle

Parsifal what you read in other forums and posts has no merit at all.

The Germans produced a target rifle, combat rifle, sporting rifle & hunting rifle all in one. The Karabiner 98k was THE most accurate rifle of WW2, both by virtue of the ammunition used and the design of the weapon.

Now the German Mauser K98k and US M1903 Springfield are completely similar in design, the only difference being a two piece firing pin being used on the Springfield. The Springfield however fired a much lighter, less stable and therefore less accurate round.

[renrich]

I have a question about firearms performance and since this thread is about combat rifles and there are so many "experts" participating, LOL, I would like to get the benefit of the wisdom which is so abundantly present. I am an "expert" in handloading(not really) but used to do quite a bit. I know that barrel length using modern smokeless powder, depending on the burn rate of the powder, has an effect on muzzle velocity. For instance, My #1 Ruger has a 26" barrel, my model 77 Ruger has a 22" barrel and my 1895 Browning has a 24" barrel. With a slow burning powder like H4831, the velocity gain over a 22" barrel of a 26" barrel was, I think, 400fps, although it may have only been 200 fps,( my books are mostly packed.) So, there is a good reason for the long barrels used on infantry weapons in WW2 besides sight radius or other considerations. This would also be true regarding naval guns and artillery pieces. Most naval guns in the larger calibres were 50 cal, meaning the barrel length was 50 time the bore diameter, where as many of the dual purpose weapons in 5 inch or less were 38 calibre or even 25 calibre. Now, here comes my question. Since black powder was not progressive burning and it consumed itself, once ignited,in one big flash, why did smooth bore muskets and naval guns as well as artillery pieces have such long barrels with the attendant weight and unhandyness? Even in rifled muskets would not the short barreled cavalry carbines have the same MV of the longer barreled infantry versions? An extreme example of this would be the Walker Colt, first used in combat by the Texas Rangers and later the US Army in the Mexican War. Reputedly the Walker had a longer effective range than the smooth bore muskets used by both sides in most cases. The Walker was a monster( I have held one and it weighs four pounds, nine ounces and the barrel was nine inches) and carried a huge powder charge. It's muzzle energy was close to the same as a modern 357 magnum, throwing a bigger bullet at a lower velocity than the 357. If that could be accomplished with a pistol, why the long barrels of the muskets?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Soren

This is as stupid as when people claim, "The Allies won the war so everything they made was better!"

Agreed but to in contrast to what you believe not everything the Germans made was superior to what the allies made...

[parsifal]

For the record, this quote has been misquoted...here is the full text of my post

One of the discussion boards I posted raises a point, which I think will bring a smile to this rather dour discussion. Basically the Mauser as the main sidearm of nations has not won, or helped to win a single war for its owners, whereas the enfield has won every major conflict that it was a part of. Havent checked the veracity of these claims, and it was a very tongue in cheek statement, but it kinda makes you think for a minute.....does that mean that for the greatest poll, ie the ones that matter, ie the two world wars, that the enfield is leading 2-0 over the mauser????

[parsifal]

Richard

You would know more than I on this subject, but in the simplest terms, barrel length isnt only about MV, I think it is also about achieving better accuracy as well. in the case of muzzle loaders, the long barrel i think is required to make the very heavy and none too ballistic ball travel as straight as possible

[Soren]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Agreed but to in contrast to what you believe not everything the Germans made was superior to what the allies made...

I don't believe everything the Germans made was superior to everything the Allies made. When have I ever said that ?

In your previous post you tried to make it look like I claimed the K98k was a better std. infantry rifle than the Garand! I've always said the exact opposite!

So perhaps if you read my posts a little better you wont get that faulty impression of me.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Soren

I don't believe everything the Germans made was superior to everything the Allies made. When have I ever said that ?

In your previous post you tried to make it look like I claimed the K98k was a better std. infantry rifle than the Garand! I've always said the exact opposite!

So perhaps if you read my posts a little better you wont get that faulty impression of me.

I read your posts just fine Soren, just like everyone else. Frankly it is getting very old, very quick.

Here I will give you an example of what convos with you sound like:

12345 said: British Field Rations were great!

Soren said: Thats Bullshit! German Rats were way better!

6789 siad: American Band Aids are great!

Soren said: Utter Rubbish and nothing more than Allied propaganda! German Band Aids were far superior.

[Soren]

A longer barrel increases MV, hence why the German AT guns were of such a high lenght caliber.

However depending on the ammo used the barrel can only be so long before it decreases MV. If for example you use a 740mm barrel for a 9x19mm round the bullet will just lodge itself in the barrel.

For AT guns a lenght caliber ratio of 71 - 73 is generally believed to be the optimum before MV stops increasing and starts to drop.

[Soren]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I read your posts just fine Soren, just like everyone else.

Well no you obviously don't.

Here I will give you an example of what convos with you sound like:

12345 said: British Field Rations were great!

Soren said: Thats Bullshit! German Rats were way better!

6789 siad: American Band Aids are great!

Soren said: Utter Rubbish and nothing more than Allied propaganda! German Band Aids were far superior.

Hehe despite having never said anything like that I'd like to see real examples which resemble it thank you.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Soren

Hehe despite having never said anything like that I'd like to see real examples which resemble it thank you.

I am not going to waste my ****ing time going back and finding your ****ing posts.

People are tired of the Bullshit Soren! Why do you think people dont get along with you?

1. They are tired of you talking down to them.
2. They are tired of your holier than thou attitude.
3. They are tired of the Everything German is better than anything else BS.

Why are you so ****ing blind to it!

I actually agree with a lot of what you say about different topics, but I hate the way your present yourself.

Get over yourself Soren...

I will let this go for now, because this is not the place for it.

[Soren]

Adler,

I don't talk down to people if they don't talk down to me. If you care to look back you'll see when I start talking down to people it has always been triggered by them starting off talking down to me.

Take Parsifal for example, he pushed my buttons when he used the phrase "If you want to be further demolished". What kind of thing is that if not demeaning to say ?? And hence I lost my respect for him that very second as it showed me he knows nothing of what he's talking about (There was no Mk43).

Anyway like you said this isn't the place to discuss this, so I'll leave it for now.