The top 10 combat rifles

[Soren]

Originally Posted by Glider

Sorry Soren but this posting is rubbish.

Nope.

There is no doubt that the British at least often used German SMG's in fact it was the policy of the Essex Regiment to dump Stens and replace them with German MP's.

Agreed, and never disputed that, I was refering to the Allies never using the Mauser, I know they did and I even have pictures to prove it.

There is also no doubt that the Allies did not use the Mauser 98,

Rubbish, that is a claim you can't substantiate with any evidence.

The British because the Lee Enfield was a better rifle. With a faster rate of fire and double the ammunition it had clear advantages.

It wasn't any bit a better rifle and it had some clear disadvantages, namely shorter effective range, weaker action and rimmed ammunition.

As for the range question. All three rifles were more than accurate enough for normal combat ranges and as for maximum ranges there was nothing in it but its worth noting that the Lee Enfield Sniper is considered to be a classic.

And the Mauser is considered the best bolt action rifle of all time, so as you can see there's a difference.

I haven't used the Mauser but I have fired the Lee Enfield at 700 yards with good results.

Me as-well, aint that hard, the Lee Enfield is a very accurate rifle there's no doubt about it, but beyond 700m and you're starting to have trouble. The faster, lower drag and heavier 7.92mm bullet solves that problem and is what makes the K98k the best rifle of the era for long range work.

It was fitted with peep sights not the normal iron or telescopic sights.

Peep sights are std. on the Enfield rifles, the volley sight is more exotic.

As for peep sights vs V sights, I prefer V sights for accuracy. The problem many people have with the V sights is directly linked to their vision not being good enough, they simply can focus well enough. But for people with good vision the V sight is great and very accurate, as long as you know how to use it properly ofcourse.

[renrich]

Let me see if I have this right. The Mauser used by the Germans in WW1 and WW2 was designed in the late 1800s. It is considered the best bolt action rifle of all time. No one has been able to improve on that design in more than a century. And it had more range than any other Allied rifle in WW2. Hmmmm. Wonder why the snipers the US military has don't use Mausers or Mauser actions?

[road_apple1861]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I dont think it is a bad list but I can probably think of better guns than the M-16.

Yea i can too. M-16 has had a long road since it was intorduced with jamming and constant cleaning.

[SoD Stitch]

I have only one thing to say . . . . .

[Soren]

Originally Posted by renrich

Let me see if I have this right. The Mauser used by the Germans in WW1 and WW2 was designed in the late 1800s. It is considered the best bolt action rifle of all time. No one has been able to improve on that design in more than a century. And it had more range than any other Allied rifle in WW2. Hmmmm. Wonder why the snipers the US military has don't use Mausers or Mauser actions?

There isn't any action in the world today which is markedly better Renrich. The only major improvements in design between the bolt action rifle designs back then and now is the thicker free floating barrel and the tricker mechanism, the actions arent any better.

Most "improvements" on the Model 98 design are in fact attempts to cut production costs--the Mauser 98 is an expensive action to manufacture.

The M98 action was designed in 1898 to be exact, and has been copied ever since till this day, hence why it's considered the best of all time.

Oh and as for the US snipers, well the Remingston action they use is a very close copy of the M98 action. Btw I like the way you just dismissed the choice of arms by the rest of the Sniper units in the world..

[Soren]

the closer to the actuall event of the work, the more reliable the source (as a general rule)

Parsifal that is so very far from the truth, and you go ahead and ask nearly every person on this forum about that. It has taken till the early to mid 90's before many documents have at all become available for researchers writing about this stuff, and thus much of their work is either incorrect or incomplete.

The designation Mk43 might have been an Allied designation for the weapon, but it wasn't a German one, I can assure you of that. Most likely it is just the author's designation for the weapon, I see mistakes like this so very often in books that old.

[parsifal]

Originally Posted by SoD Stitch

I have only one thing to say . . . . .

Yep....I apologise for contributing to this train wreck. still, its kinda cool to watch as the tragedy unfolds dont you think

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Soren

Rubbish, that is a claim you can't substantiate with any evidence.

Show us your photographs of British troops using the Mauser as a preference to the Lee Enfield. I have never seen any such photos or heard of any reference to this being done.

It wasn't any bit a better rifle and it had some clear disadvantages, namely shorter effective range, weaker action and rimmed ammunition.

This is rubbish. It had at least as good a range as the Mauser ( I take it you know that the first Lee Enfields were sighted to 2000 yards for volley fire)
The action was perfectly reliable and the 303 ammo didn't have any problems of any note and was used for many years as standard in many weapons.

Its worth noting that at extreme ranges the Lee Enfield had one advantage over the Mauser. It was more tollerant to varied ammuition quality whereas the Mauser wasn't.

Question Are you saying that having half the ammunition and a slower rate of fire isn't a disadvantage?

And the Mauser is considered the best bolt action rifle of all time, so as you can see there's a difference.

By Whom?

Peep sights are std. on the Enfield rifles.

These were Target shooting peep sights which differ from the standard sights.

As for peep sights vs V sights, I prefer V sights for accuracy. The problem many people have with the V sights is directly linked to their vision not being good enough, they simply can focus well enough. But for people with good vision the V sight is great and very accurate, as long as you know how to use it properly ofcourse.

Out of interest, can I ask how accurate are you with a V sight at 700 yards? I admit that I would be lucky to hit the target using the V.

[renrich]

The Mauser is considered the best bolt action rifle of all time by that imminent authority, Soren. However, that authority has just stated that" there isn't any action in the world which is markedly better." Hmmmmm, perhaps there might be an action which is a tiny bit better or slightly better. I am glad all those gun makers haven't labored for over 100 years without making at least some progress. The facts are that in the summer of 1914, the "Old Contemptibles" regularly outshot and outranged the German troops. The British were armed with the Enfield and Mausers armed the Germans. Horrors! Perhaps the Brits were just better trained at rapid, long range fire than the Germans. Yep, I used the US military sniper weapons as an example for the simple reason that no other country has had the combat experience that the US military has had since 1945.

[parsifal]

Dont bother Richard, you are wasting your time.

[Messy1]

My personal favorite is the M1 Garand. I am planning on owning one in the near future!


I just like to add that these long posts make for some dangerous reading at work!!

[renrich]

If you can find a Garand in good condition you are getting a piece of history that will always be worth more than you paid for it.

[Messy1]

renrich, I have been trying to find an original service rifle, but pickings around here are becoming slim.

[Soren]

Originally Posted by renrich

The facts are that in the summer of 1914, the "Old Contemptibles" regularly outshot and outranged the German troops.

Bullshit.

The Mauser outranged the Endfield easily, and the German snipers demonstrated that very thuroughly during WW1. Go ahead and read Peter Senich's book on German snipers throughout WW1 & 2.

Yep, I used the US military sniper weapons as an example for the simple reason that no other country has had the combat experience that the US military has had since 1945.

A simple but very illogical reason.. So let me get you straight, you just brush aside the epxerience the Royal Army, French Foreign legion, Russian army, German army etc etc has accumulated over the years ??? Ignorance at its highest.

Just so you know the US sniper training program used today is based on the German sniper training program from WW2, yep it's nearly an exact copy and they're not the only country using it today either.

And as for Sniper rifles, guess who still makes the most accurate: Germany.

Notably: Erma, DSR & Walther.

DSR-1, sub .2 MOA rifle.

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by Soren

Bullshit.



Just so you know the US sniper training program used today is based on the German sniper training program from WW2, yep it's nearly an exact copy and they're not the only country using it today either.


DSR-1, sub .2 MOA rifle.

wrong again the US used the Canadian Sylabus after the US forces had deemed the sniper redundant in the early 70's they omce again reinstaed the sniper training using the Canadian model