TSR-2 - "Perfect example for unmasterable technology and mismanagement?"

[Graeme]

Originally Posted by mosquitoman

Not that good old beer talk is bad

Nothing involving beer can be bad!

[SoD Stitch]

Originally Posted by HoHun

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the great discussion! Though inevitably, some posts didn't even mention the TSR-2, I think they're on topic just the same as the capabilities of contemporary designs are important for an evaluation, too!

So it seems that no one here really thinks that there were any insurmountable problems with the TSR-2, regardless of whether it was the right design for the role. I'd say that from your comments, the level of mismanagement and the margin of the cost overrun of the TSR-2 seems to have been nothing special compared to that of other contemporary projects, especially the F-111 which was designed in the USA for the same role.

Does that sound like a reasonable summary?

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

IMHO, what it came down to is the US of A could afford to "waste" millions of taxpayer's dollars keeping a foundering aircraft program alive, and the UK couldn't. If the UK could've afforded to spend more time and money on the TSR project, I'm sure it would've been a qualified success, just like the F-111 progarm was.

[CRASHGATE3]

Originally Posted by Graeme

Nothing involving beer can be bad!

You should see some of the girls I've walked home !!

[The Basket]

You forget that both the RAF and RAAF were down for buying F-111....as well as TSR2...Remember the Canberra bomber...so good that the Yanks bought it....Now what would happen if the TSR2 was better than the F-111????????

The TSR2 program may have been cancelled by American pressure to stop any competitor getting orders....so the F-111 would have a clear run so to speak.

Also the nuclear deterent switched to Polaris subs and no longer the RAF.

The TSR2 would have been a belter...no question.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by The Basket

You forget that both the RAF and RAAF were down for buying F-111....as well as TSR2...Remember the Canberra bomber...so good that the Yanks bought it....Now what would happen if the TSR2 was better than the F-111????????

Nothing

Originally Posted by The Basket

The TSR2 program may have been cancelled by American pressure to stop any competitor getting orders....so the F-111 would have a clear run so to speak.

That's the same crap some Canadians try to say about the AVRO Arrow.

Originally Posted by The Basket

Also the nuclear deterent switched to Polaris subs and no longer the RAF.

The TSR2 would have been a belter...no question.

Despite having the potential of being one of the most advanced combat aircraft of its day the TSR2 demise rested solely with the British Government.

[pbfoot]

I'm shocked to think I spout crap If the Brits had made the engine they promised they could for the Arrow but later admitted it was to much for them

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

I'm shocked to think I spout crap If the Brits had made the engine they promised they could for the Arrow but later admitted it was to much for them

[merlin]

Just suppose for one unlikely moment, that the incoming labour government did decide to continue with the TSR2; what would replace the Lightning? That is - there would be no need to develop the Torando.
There were the ex-RN Phantoms, but the would not have been any further Phantoms (bought to replace the F-111), so what else in the time from would have been an alternative? A British built fighter? The French Mirage? An early F-16 (or indeed F-17)? A land based version of the F-14? Or perhaps the Swedish Viggen?

Referring to the earlier comments about the German decision to buy the Starfighter, I thought the very fancied British alternative was Fairey jet/rocket fighter/interceptor!?

[The Basket]

If no Tornado around then probably gone Eagle.

The Tomcat was perfect but it was pricey with the Phoenix too. The jet needed plenty range.

The rocket fighter was saunders roe and it was a point interceptor.