What could combat the F22?

Konigstiger205 · 06-13-2008, 01:19 AM

I want your opinions about the Russians attempt to modernize their Mig29 under the name of Mig35 and other planes that could successfully hold out against the F22.

Kruska · 06-13-2008, 08:53 AM

Hello Konigstiger 205,

Taking the present state of art in regards to electronics, radar, missile and stealth technology into account, I would forward that there is no other aircraft at the moment that could pose a serious threat to an F-22. (If all these data’s are proven) besides the “patronized” information that is fed into the market solely by the producer and the USAF.

Second runner up would be the Eurofighter – Typhoon, and possible even the right now #1 aircraft in regards to “proven” data’s.

As for the Russian or Chinese latest or newest aircrafts I would forward, that besides speed and agility there isn’t anything else that comes even close to Europe’s or the US best aircrafts and existing technology.

The F-15SG model is capable enough to handle Russia’s and Chinas best, but due to the F-22 sales need – it’s fantastic capabilities are totally downplayed.

Regards
Kruska

drgondog · 06-13-2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kruska

Hello Konigstiger 205,

Taking the present state of art in regards to electronics, radar, missile and stealth technology into account, I would forward that there is no other aircraft at the moment that could pose a serious threat to an F-22. (If all these data’s are proven) besides the “patronized” information that is fed into the market solely by the producer and the USAF.

Second runner up would be the Eurofighter – Typhoon, and possible even the right now #1 aircraft in regards to “proven” data’s.

As for the Russian or Chinese latest or newest aircrafts I would forward, that besides speed and agility there isn’t anything else that comes even close to Europe’s or the US best aircrafts and existing technology.

The F-15SG model is capable enough to handle Russia’s and Chinas best, but due to the F-22 sales need – it’s fantastic capabilities are totally downplayed.

Regards
Kruska

I happened to engage an RAF Wing CO six weeks ago at Davis Monthan OC. Over a few brews he actually echoed the same words.

He was quite happy to engage with the F-15 and F-16's at Nellis and felt the Tyhoon was very capable against them, particularly in energy manueverabilty.
He also felt if he could get close enough to 'see' the F-22 that the a/c would be nicely matched... that was the rub.

They were at DM to get joint tasking experience with the A-10 teams as well as F-16 and F-15 CAS tactics..

Very sharp group of guys - as well as the A-10 drivers at DM

Konigstiger205 · 06-14-2008, 06:36 AM

Well I didn't realize that the Eurofighter Typhoon was so advanced. I like the plane a lot and I'm very happy to hear that its so good. I really hope the wise a*ses from the Romanian Air Forces will be smart enough to choose it to replace our aging and rusting Mig 21's. But returning to the topic I also like the Sukhoi 47 Berkut wich looks really mean, although its just a prototype at the moment and I don't know how advanced it is in terms of avionics.

Matt308 · 06-14-2008, 01:03 PM

It is just a demonstrator.

syscom3 · 06-14-2008, 02:11 PM

Unmanned drones capable of 30G turns and cheap enough to be expendable is the weapon that we should be deploying now. All they need to do is crash into an enemy fighter to be successfull.

The manned fighter is becoming a thing of the past.

Kruska · 06-14-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

Unmanned drones capable of 30G turns and cheap enough to be expendable is the weapon that we should be deploying now. All they need to do is crash into an enemy fighter to be successfull.

The manned fighter is becoming a thing of the past.

Hello syscom,

That is about just what I stated in another thread; Europe or in that specific case Germany is allocating its funds into UCAV’s instead of following up on the F-22 policy.

Regards
Kruska

Matt308 · 06-14-2008, 03:56 PM

Yeah you guys are building the Barracuda, right Kruska? I thought I just read that you just approved some follow on airframes for your tech eval work.

Matt308 · 06-14-2008, 03:58 PM

EADS Barracuda

drgondog · 06-14-2008, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kruska

Hello syscom,

That is about just what I stated in another thread; Europe or in that specific case Germany is allocating its funds into UCAV’s instead of following up on the F-22 policy.

Regards
Kruska

I would like to be in a Preliminary Design meeting as they start to define the overall cross section (radar and engines) and wing for the air to air mission..and command/control communication lag times in 'hot' scenarios.

These are among the more interesting design issues - which may drive AI and Pattern Recognition into places not currently contemplated

Kruska · 06-14-2008, 04:07 PM

Hello Matt308,

Actually I forward, that Germany is using its limited recourses to develop UCAV’s to enter service by 2020-2040 and that in the meantime the existing aircrafts will be upgraded by RaSigma in order to close the gap till then.

BTW, the US is still leading on the UCAV technology. However it might lose its lead since even the US wouldn’t have the $$ to peruse the F-35, F-22, UCAV and other stealth projects at the same time.

Nice picture though.

Regards
Kruska

Kruska · 06-14-2008, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgondog

These are among the more interesting design issues - which may drive AI and Pattern Recognition into places not currently contemplated

Hello drgondog,

The problem still plaguing the RaSigma RCS verification print is the development of the necessary algorithms to translate RCS ID into onboard Incoming readings for sure identification. This will be the milestone on any future UCAV development or let’s rather say mission effectiveness. The Hologram application is limited due to weather conditions and reading range.

Regards
Kruska

drgondog · 06-14-2008, 05:24 PM

That makes sense -

I can't help but believe two criteria are required that haven't been solved - namely positively ID an unidentified a/c (100%), and second, when given command to shoot it down, have the requisite intelligence (and sensors) to detect what the other guy is doing to enable a 'kill' solution if manuever is required... out of communication link connection.

Satellites will be targeted so have to provide for intermittant or disconnected situations - because even egress may not be feasible

Matt308 · 06-14-2008, 05:26 PM

Not to mention ECM in the traditional form of RF energy, but also technology related to plasma appliques.

Yes the US is spending money on manned airplanes with stealth characteristics. But then again the mission profiles of the US are significantly different than from a nation whose primary defensive posture is their immediate borders. Once your operational enviroment moves beyond border protection, the ability to rely upon AI to identify, classify, and prioritize weapon weapon release becomes much more complex with political realities. Programs (and I'm referring to those that are not black) like the X-45 and X-47 are indicative of the airframes that are leading these evaluations. The use of UASs, UAVs, UCAVs is less a technology issue than it is an order of battle/integration issue with existing force application.

While unmanned aircraft are the thing of the future, manned aircraft will form the backbone in a future netcentric warfare scenario. Unmanned aircraft require high bandwidth communication to account for the lack of autonomous decision making that affect human life. This can be too easily denied. Thus, a squadron level manned aircraft able to penetrate air defences on par with unmanned aircraft are vitally important to operations for those countries who wish to project power.

While your comments about about your countries RCS prowess is well taken, that is only a sliver of the overall needs for one which wishes to affect battlefield change outside of their borders.

FLYBOYJ · 06-14-2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syscom3

Unmanned drones capable of 30G turns and cheap enough to be expendable is the weapon that we should be deploying now. All they need to do is crash into an enemy fighter to be successfull.

The manned fighter is becoming a thing of the past.

Don't kid yourself - the same thing was said in the 1950s (as previously discussed). I believe we'll see both manned and UAVs operating together, but the days of building several hundred manned fighters is over. I see a day were you'll see say 100 manned fighters and 1000 UAVs making up a modern fighter force.