Will there ever be a heavy-weight military clash?

[Udet]

Timshats, thanks for the comments. Very interesting indeed.

I agree when you say the population of the U.S.A. is more tech savy when compared with the chinese (by far), so the ability to recover and respond to emergency is indeed there, and should be a plus when confronting emergency.

i can understand the parts where you explain the procedures the USA can follow to mess and screw the decision process of the enemy regarding military issues (screwing or jamming their communications, causing their weapon systems to fail, etc.)

Still if the bulk of the chinese population does not rely on technology to carry on with their lives, they can not receive -at least- direct damage from the sort of electronic warfare we are trying to discuss here. So if there can not be damage there is nothing to recover from.

It seems quite clear the USA might have an advantage to directly damage China´s military by means of electronic warfare, and only after that the chinese populace can get affected.

Relying heavily upon technology and information can certainly produce a population that is more prone to panic. The people of the U.S.A. is accustomed to timely and up-to-date information only; so as you commented, the sudden lack of such ingredients can cause a severe shock.

In case of war the U.S.A. would have to deal with both the foreign enemy and the population demanding information; whether the Chinese become capable of damaging or "crippling" the technology and information elements of the U.S.A. (military and civilian alike) is irrelevant. The U.S.A. would appear to have two fronts: (i) external -the enemy-, and (ii) internal (population). A situation that can certainly become a nightmare.

The Chinese, well, they do not need to inform or report to the populace, so only the enemy will count.

[syscom3]

There is one factor that I think inhibits any large military action between the PRC and the US, and that's the near total dependance of the PRC on easy access to the US markets. Take that away and the PRC is going to be hurting fast.

Scenario's I see where the PRC and the US would be fighting each other for brief periods before things get totally out of hand:

- China vs ASEAN over the Spratleys, in which the sealanes are put at risk. The US and Japan ally themselves to ASEAN.
- Rogue military/economic interests in the PRC get themselves involved with a terror group who does something really really nasty in which we retaliate.
- Russia vs PRC over Siberia. The US gets sucked into the fight by the PRC.

Other scenario's:
- Pakistan vs India
- India vs PRC
- NATO/US vs PRC in middle east (with Russia staying out).
- Arabs vs Iran

Another possibility: Iran or N Korea uses a nuke on a US city and we hold Russia and PRC both responsible and we nuke one of their cities to even the score.

As for the PRC's military..... they are still two generations behind the west. Their attempts at economic damage to the US via cyber warfare would backfire horribly for them when the rest of the world isolates them from the internet. When money is involved, the whole world listens and reacts. Just remember we have as many tech savy computer and telecom enginners and hackers who know just how to inflict as pain on the PRC.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by timshatz

Blue Force Tracker is a good representative of computer enhancement of the battlefield. This is a computer program/lan/operational system that keeps track of all your assets on a battlefield (Blue), the enemy (Red) and unknown (I think green or grey). It produces a common battlefield picture in real time that all units engaged in the operation can use. Takes inputs from assets (Land, Air, Sea, Sattelite, ect) and feeds them into a screen readout like a video game.

It seems to work pretty well. During the Gulf War it was very helpful in reducing the number of Blue on Blue engagements (also known as friendly fire).

No it does not work very well. It needs to be refined and improved before it will be worth a damn. We hated the fricken thing in Iraq. All it did was take up valuable space in our aircraft and was of little or no use at all. It was allways failing and going offline and the messages would not even arrive half the time that we sent to ground forces or to our home camp.

[timshatz]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

No it does not work very well. It needs to be refined and improved before it will be worth a damn. We hated the fricken thing in Iraq. All it did was take up valuable space in our aircraft and was of little or no use at all. It was allways failing and going offline and the messages would not even arrive half the time that we sent to ground forces or to our home camp.

Sounds like the internet! Well, at least around here on a Friday afternoon.

Always better to hear from somebody who has direct experience with it. How long ago did you use it in A-stan? My understanding is it was fairly new (Star Wars type stuff) back in the 2003 invasion.

The same problem happened back when they brought up Aegis back in the 80s. Well, not the exact same problem but there were plenty of gaps in it. What you trained for is not what you saw. I understand it improved immensely since then. Remember the warning of Russian Missle Radar Locks going off in the Delaware River in the Early 80s. Like you said, refining was needed.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I used it from 2004 to 2005 in Iraq. I too have heard that it has gotten better. Much smaller and more capable. Not sure of that though.

[timshatz]

That's good news. Figure they have so much invested in it, it will work after they get the wrinkles fixed. The early stuff never works well and the crews/users inevitable have plenty of problems with it (M16, AIM9, AIM7,ect). But they iron them out after a while. Usually (Sgt. York System no withstanding).

[HealzDevo]

That quote was by Scotty Montgomery of Startrek, Engineer on the Enterprise NCC-1701A. I see a China vs Russia and the US situation not occurring because China wouldn't like to be in a situation where its opponent has twice the nuclear arsennal. Don't forget that it is unknown where all Russian nuclear weapons are. Did the Russian government hide some to aim at China in a troubled situation?

[Matt308]

I thought Scotty said...

"I cun't hold 'er Captain, I'm tu daum faut to rrreach the contrrrols!"

[timshatz]

[quote=HealzDevo;213899]That quote was by Scotty Montgomery of Startrek, Engineer on the Enterprise NCC-1701A. QUOTE]


You nailed it!

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i can't stand Star Trek nor can i see the attraction........

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass

i can't stand Star Trek nor can i see the attraction........

Star Trek might be the worst show of all time - that's why lanc

[HealzDevo]

Oh, come on, its not that bad. I enjoyed it. Lanc saying he can't stand something is no endorsement as he actually likes some of the ugliest French aircraft. Ugh... It was usually "we carn't take any more carptain." He might have said that other quote in one of the episodes. I don't know, I usually enjoyed the plot lines. You have to remember, that Star Trek is actually an intellectual show unlike a lot of other things that are on TV. It is one of the few actual character focusing programs that I can watch. Otherwise the rest are too annoying...

[timshatz]

Originally Posted by HealzDevo

You have to remember, that Star Trek is actually an intellectual show unlike a lot of other things that are on TV. It is one of the few actual character focusing programs that I can watch. Otherwise the rest are too annoying...

True. It came from the same bunch of programing ideals that produced "The Twilight Zone" and shows of that nature. Little better standards than presently out there. But then again, haven't watch network TV in 10-15 years so I'm not the best to ask about it.

[timshatz]

Heard an interesting idea about a future military clash last night. Or at least, this is what I got out of it. Goes something like this:

Iran gets the bomb. US and some close allies impose an embargo on oil exports from Iran. Oil exports drop from the Gulf as a consequence. China, with no supplies of it's own, faces slow strangulation of it's economy. It either:

A. Attempts to reopen the Persian Gulf and get Iranian Oil flowing again.

Or

B. Goes North to Seize the Siberian Oil Fields.

Far fetched, but possible?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

That is an interesting idea.