Your top 10 modern fighters

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by ozumn

its Gripen, it has very low radar signature it have supercruse and im sure it has about the same manouverbility in a dog fight as any new plane, but we wil see it will be fun.

The Gripen is not a pure stealth aircraft, although it has a very low radar signature and although it did well in exercises against the Norwegian AF it does not have the "legs" or the bomb carrying capability of the F-16 and that's why many nations have continued to purchase the F-16 over the Gripen if they require a multi role strike capability.

The F-22 avionics suite and especially the F-35 (airframe and avionics) is a generation a head of the Gripen

[ozumn]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

The Gripen is not a pure stealth aircraft, although it has a very low radar signature and although it did well in exercises against the Norwegian AF it does not have the "legs" or the bomb carrying capability of the F-16 and that's why many nations have continued to purchase the F-16 over the Gripen if they require a multi role strike capability.

The F-22 avionics suite and especially the F-35 (airframe and avionics) is a generation a head of the Gripen

did well hmm i would say no match, the few times that i been on exercises when the f16 was the dogfight oponent the f16 sisnt stand a chance it was clear victory all the time. and i still say just wait by the time the f22 is out there will be new gripen also.

[Henk]

If you guys know about the South African Bush War in Angola the South African Airforce used the Mirrage and the Communists used the MIGs. The MIGs were way better and newer but who whippet who's a**?

It is the Pilot and not just the machine who makes it a great aircraft or not. I must say that the Gripen is the best fighter for its prise and can do many things that just dog fight, thus you do not need to buy other aircraft to fill the other roles.

Henk

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by ozumn

did well hmm i would say no match, the few times that i been on exercises when the f16 was the dogfight oponent the f16 sisnt stand a chance it was clear victory all the time. and i still say just wait by the time the f22 is out there will be new gripen also.

What "new" Gripen? Are you trying to say that Saab is going to attempt to update the aircraft? You could only pump so much into that airframe and its already been shown that the Grippen's inability to carry substantial air to ground stores has handicapped it in foreign sales. But then again it is designed as an interceptor with some air to ground mission capability....

BTW the exercises you were talking about was against the Norwegian Air Force, one of the weaker NATO members in the air-to-air intercept role. I'd like to see the Gripen piloted against US or even Israeli F-16 pilots. Over all the Gripen is a superior aircraft but it won't be an "easy kill" against a seasoned air force in a tactical role.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Henk

If you guys know about the South African Bush War in Angola the South African Airforce used the Mirrage and the Communists used the MIGs. The MIGs were way better and newer but who whippet who's a**?

It is the Pilot and not just the machine who makes it a great aircraft or not. I must say that the Gripen is the best fighter for its prise and can do many things that just dog fight, thus you do not need to buy other aircraft to fill the other roles.

Henk

Know about it well and the SAAF did extrememly well against Angola, here's a site that give information for kills an losses of the SAAF.

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/printer_184.shtml

[ozumn]

no i think it was in Neatherlands, and i was just talking to my brother a gripen pilot he says that you can put any pilot from what ever nation the f16 want last long, he told me about the the finnish f18 they could put out a goodfight at high altitud.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by ozumn

no i think it was in Neatherlands, and i was just talking to my brother a gripen pilot he says that you can put any pilot from what ever nation the f16 want last long, he told me about the the finnish f18 they could put out a goodfight at high altitud.

Ahh a little family prejudice?!?

The Gripen does have an excellent linking system, but the link-16 has brought the Falcon with parity here.

Link-16 shares target info, radar contacts, SAR images, and IIR targeting pod images. Can also get GPS coordinates from any C3ISR platform.

As far as ergonomics and ease of operation, Id give the prize to the Gripen. The cockpit is full glass, with excellent HOTAS and HUD. Large fully programmable MFDs display whatever the pilot wants. The cockpit is truly a gem.

But for payload, range, and T/W ratio, I think the Viper gets the nod. The Gripen is a much smaller aircraft, and with just s single F404 engine, there just isnt the capacity for as much "stuff" as the Viper.

The Gripen has just a fantastic pilot interface though.

ALTHOUGH....

F-16s offer the following distinct advantages:

* It is a true multi-role aircraft and can be used Air to Air or Air to Ground Role unlike Gripen which may be better for Air to Air role only;

* Low RCS of Gripen is due to its small size and a naked body only. Once you hang stores, its low RCS will disappear;

But here's something to think about...

*Gripen may out outmaneuver an older F-16 but new F-16s with their newer more powerful engines can easily turn tables on Gripen.

* Gripen's small size will become a liability in the A to G role. It does not carry more weapons as F-16 can. You keep loading heavy armaments on Gripen and you have a shortened wing life.

[ozumn]

give up, Gripen is a exelt striker and what new f16 you must be kidding. and what has range to do with anything. F16 was a great plane but now its just good.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by ozumn

give up, Gripen is a exelt striker and what new f16 you must be kidding. and what has range to do with anything. F16 was a great plane but now its just good.

I worked for Lockheed and know what is going on with the program. The Gripen fits the need of Sweeden but not many are being sold, there's a reason for that. Compare the bomb loads....

Specifications (F-16C Block 30)

F-16 3 View SchematicGeneral characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 49 ft 5 in (14.8 m)
Wingspan: 32 ft 8 in (9.8 m)
Height: 16 ft (4.8 m)
Wing area: 300 ft² (27.87 m²)
Airfoil: NACA 64A204 root and tip
Empty weight: 18,238 lb (8,272 kg)
Loaded weight: 26,463 lb (12,003 kg)
Maximum gross takeoff weight: 42,300 lb (16,875 kg)
Powerplant: 1× Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-220 or 1× General Electric F110-GE-100 afterburning turbofan, F100 14,590 lbf dry and 23,770 lbf with afterburning; F110 17,155 lbf dry, 28,985 lbf with afterburning (F100 64.9 kN / 105.7 kN; F110 76.3 kN / 128.9 kN)
Performance
Maximum speed: Mach 2.05 at altitude, 1,321 mph (2,100 km/h)
Range: 2,000+ mi ferry (3,200+ km)
Service ceiling: 55,000+ ft (15,240+ m)
Rate of climb: 50,000 ft/min (255 m/s)
Wing loading: 53 lb/ft² (260 kg/m²)
Thrust/weight: 0.91
Armament
Guns: 1× M61 Vulcan 20 mm Gatling gun
Rockets: CRV-7
Missiles:
Air-to-air: 6× AIM-9 Sidewinder, 6× AIM-120 AMRAAM
Air-to-ground: 6× AGM-65 Maverick, 4× AGM-88 HARM
Anti-ship: 4× AGM-119 Penguin
Bombs: 2× CBU-87 cluster, 2× CBU-89 gator mine, 2× CBU-97, 2× GBU-10 Paveway, GBU-12 Paveway II, Paveway-series laser-guided bombs, 2× JDAM, 6× Mk 80 series, and also nuclear bombs such as the B61 nuclear bomb.

Specifications (JAS-39 Gripen)
General characteristics
Crew: 1-2
Length: 14.1 m (46 ft 3 in)
Wingspan: 8.4 m (27 ft 7 in)
Height: 4.5 m (14 ft 9 in)
Wing area: 25.54 m (274.9 ft)
Empty weight: 6,620 kg (14,600 lb)
Loaded weight: 8,720 kg (19,200 lb)
Maximum gross takeoff weight: 14,000 kg (31,000 lb)
Powerplant: 1× Volvo Aero RM12 (GE404) afterburning turbofan, 54 kN dry, 80 kN with afterburner (12,000 lbf / 18,000 lbf)
Wheel track: 2.4 m (7 ft 10 in)
Performance
Maximum speed: Mach 2
Range: 800 km (500 mi)
Service ceiling: 15,000 m (50,000 ft)
Rate of climb: m/s (ft/min)
Wing loading: kg/m² (lb/ft²)
Thrust/weight: 0.63
Armament
1x 27 mm Mauser BK-27 cannon
6x AIM-9 Sidewinder
4x AIM-120 AMRAAM or MICA
AGM-65 Maverick, KEPD 150, or various other laser-guided bombs, rocket pods.


The Gripen is a great plane and a half of step ahead of the F-16 in many cases but the F-16 can still compete with it - Now compare the Gripen with the F-22 or F-35 (Or even the Eurofighter) and once again these aircraft hold an commanding performance lead in almost all areas.....

[davparlr]

Wow. With a GE404 engine, Gripen is more in the league of the F-20. I can see why a plane that small would be a tough dogfighter. Also, I see why its use is somewhat limited.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by davparlr

Wow. With a GE404 engine, Gripen is more in the league of the F-20. I can see why a plane that small would be a tough dogfighter. Also, I see why its use is somewhat limited.

Great comparison and you hit it right on the head!!!

[pbfoot]

The Gripen was designed for the defence of Sweden it does'nt have to go very far and would be basically a Air defence weapon its not really an offensive threat buts its STOL characteristics and its ability to deploy locally easily make it ideal for Sweden

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

The Gripen was designed for the defence of Sweden it does'nt have to go very far and would be basically a Air defence weapon its not really an offensive threat buts its STOL characteristics and its ability to deploy locally easily make it ideal for Sweden

Agree!! And unless another air force has a similar requirement, they ain't selling very many....

[lesofprimus]

I dont think they really want to export very many of them anyways, so it all works out for Sweden....

All the spare parts they'll ever need.....

[lesofprimus]

Originally Posted by ozumn

the few times that i been on exercises when the f16 was the dogfight oponent the f16 sisnt stand a chance it was clear victory all the time.