Sarkozy refuses invite royals D Day 65th-Anniversary

[freebird]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I agree that it still is a snub to British and Canadian vets, but I still think the Press is blowing this out of proportion. As pB just noted, the Canadian PM will be there. PM Brown from England will be there as well.

They are not snuffing out the allies in that sense.

Now I do agree with you that they need to give just as much praise and respect to the British and Canadian vets as they do the American Vets, D-Day was a joint operation. I however do not believe that the fact that Queen is not coming is a snuff. She even decided not to attend on several occasions on her own accord.

If there is a British and Canadian delegation (which there is, as both PM's will be there) then as a delegation that is good enough.

My apologies if you were offended Adler, I wasn't taking aim at you in that post, I was trying to point out how the original statement should have been worded.

My mistake in quoting you, because I don't take issue with any of your post.

As for which stuffed shirts attend, not a big concern with that either.

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I agree that it still is a snub to British and Canadian vets...

That's the point I was making.

Just found the statement mentioning only the Americans to be rather disrespectful of the other participants, as just last month I had someone rather condecendingly point out my error in referring to a Canadian landing beach at Normandy, "Since of course it was only the Americans who landed there"...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by freebird

My apologies if you were offended Adler, I wasn't taking aim at you in that post, I was trying to point out how the original statement should have been worded.

My mistake in quoting you, because I don't take issue with any of your post.

Ah I get you...

When I first read the post, I thought you were implying that I was saying otherwise. I misunderstood you.

I apologize. I am just having a bad day. Pay no attention to my post them, in fact I will edit it out.

[freebird]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Ah I get you...

I apologize. I am just having a bad day. Pay no attention to my post them, in fact I will edit it out.

No worries, I didn't quote that very well.


It may not seem like a big deal either to some, but it's unfortunate because it leads ignorance of history that some people have in the US. {and Canada too!}

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by freebird

It may not seem like a big deal either to some, but it's unfortunate because it leads ignorance of history that some people have in the US. {and Canada too!}

I agree. I believe that not recognizing the contributions of all of the allies is a shame and disgraceful. I also have to agree with you on the US. Unfortunately many of my countryman believe that it was only the US that shed blood and won WW2.

[freebird]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I agree. I believe that not recognized the contributions of all of the allies is shame and disgraceful. I also have to agree with you on the US. Unfortunately many of my countryman believe that it was only the US the shed blood and won WW2.

What do you think the problem is?

I wonder if it isn't a certain lazieness in the media to report things accurately? And perhaps a somewhat US-centric reporting about history?

For example, CNN or FOX might report "the 65th anniversary of the American landing in Normandy" instead of the more accurate "Allied" landings.

It's not that I'm going to get picky about every fact, but I have been surprised to meet many Americans that didn't know the Australians fought in VietNam, or that Canadians participated in Desert Storm, Afganistan & Korea etc.

What? I don't remember seeing any Canucks on M*A*S*H....

[Arsenal VG-33]

Originally Posted by freebird

I wonder if it isn't a certain lazieness in the media to report things accurately? And perhaps a somewhat US-centric reporting about history?

Every country which took part in any major event which has gone done in the annals history has naturally put their national spin on it. It's only naturally that people take pride in what their own forces did. Over the recent years however, this has evolved in over emphasizing their importance and leaving out the sacrifices/contributions of others.

Anyone who uses any of the major television sources (CNN, FOX, CBS, etc.,etc.) as a outlet for their own education is a lost cause (not you....but society in general). It's been my observation that people who tend to watch/listen the telly/radio the most, are also the most easily influenced, more often than not by the last thing they've seen/heard. With telly and radio personalities achieving quasi-celebrity status, combined with flashy and repetitive visual and audio bling, people who watch/listen on a regular basis, and without doing any cross referencing whatsoever, tend to be very accepting of the information received, regardless of how true or false it is, (mostly the latter). Lastly, I truely worry over democracies where the press is running headlong into the venue of sensational tabloids. You tell them that polar bear paratroops landed in Berlin long enough and loud enough, they'll believe you. Was there not a report only 1 or 2 years ago, stating that most people in a certain age bracket were getting most of their information from late-nite talk show hosts???

There is no substitute for a good book - many of them - comparative research and cross referencing.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by freebird

What do you think the problem is?

I wonder if it isn't a certain lazieness in the media to report things accurately? And perhaps a somewhat US-centric reporting about history?

For example, CNN or FOX might report "the 65th anniversary of the American landing in Normandy" instead of the more accurate "Allied" landings.

It's not that I'm going to get picky about every fact, but I have been surprised to meet many Americans that didn't know the Australians fought in VietNam, or that Canadians participated in Desert Storm, Afganistan & Korea etc.

What? I don't remember seeing any Canucks on M*A*S*H....

It very well could what you describe. I also think it starts in the schools. History is not being taught the way it happened, but the way they want people to know it.

[BombTaxi]

That is always an issue. The teaching of history here in the UK is fairly grim, there is an effort to teach the entire history of the UK from before the Roman invasion, but that is obviously a lot to fit in, and at GCSE and A-Level, the whole focus is on the World Wars and international relations - or it was when I did the exams almost a decade ago. Most kids leave school with no understanding of our history, not understanding why England is a Protestant country, for example, or why there has been such violence in Ireland for the last five centuries. The problem is further compounded by the rise of the right-wing and anti-EU parties who hijack history to promote thier agendas.

[ToughOmbre]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

It very well could what you describe. I also think it starts in the schools. History is not being taught the way it happened, but the way they want people to know it.

Absolutely true, unfortunately. I could hardly believe the stuff in my kid's history books going back 20 to 25 years ago. The texts showed the influence of PC and revisionist historians.

TO

[Ferdinand Foch]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

I agree. I believe that not recognizing the contributions of all of the allies is a shame and disgraceful. I also have to agree with you on the US. Unfortunately many of my countryman believe that it was only the US that shed blood and won WW2.

Unfortunately, history textbooks in middle and high school only touch on briefly the second world war, and most of the time it's not the best info. out there (unless you are in a higher up class).
Personally, I would be a lot happier if the history of World War Two (and even the first world war) were taught in a seperate class. That would give the kids the education they need on these events.

[Arsenal VG-33]

So, finally there are those who are able to see the incident for what it really is:

Remembering the beaches | Robert Fox | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

"It seems that the main culprit is not Sarkozy, whose forebears had a dreadful experience in the second world war in the ghetto of Thessaloniki and in Hungary. According to the Daily Mail, not entirely reliable on matters of royal pique and foreign relations, the French president told the British government to nominate who they wanted as representing Britain and the Commonwealth in Normandy.

At first Gordon Brown said has wasn't going, now he has said he is. First he said there should be a memorial service for the Normandy campaign at Westminster Abbey next month, and now he has called it off. For a man who purports to have such a deep interest in history, at times his understanding of it, and its legacy in the collective memory, seems remarkably shallow. His dithering and grudging decision to attend the ceremonies means that many of those nations who went ashore under British and Canadian command in 1944, including Poles, Jews and refugee units from across occupied Europe, will be under-represented.

Brown's own history of support for the armed forces has, if anything, been worse than that of Tony Blair........"

I'd like to prove my point on Brown with this little gem:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjoypNuGm2E

[Vassili Zaitzev]

Originally Posted by Ferdinand Foch

Unfortunately, history textbooks in middle and high school only touch on briefly the second world war, and most of the time it's not the best info. out there (unless you are in a higher up class).
Personally, I would be a lot happier if the history of World War Two (and even the first world war) were taught in a seperate class. That would give the kids the education they need on these events.

Forget it Foch, I was in the same history classes as you, and we missed a lot of stuff. I think the only class I learned a lot was Civil War history, but since I'm into military history well. A reason why I'm glad I'm a part of this forum, learned quite a bit.

[vikingBerserker]

Well, the way I see it the Germans didn't invite the British or Canadians either, but they still showed up.

Hell with PC protocal, show up anyway.

[RabidAlien]

Originally Posted by vikingBerserker

Well, the way I see it the Germans didn't invite the British or Canadians either, but they still showed up.

Hell with PC protocal, show up anyway.

A-FRIKKIN-MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's gotta be the best response I've read yet!!


I recall hating history classes in middle and high school. It was all about rote memorization of names and dates and countries...something I didn't do very well at. I came out knowing that the Battle of the Bulge happened, and that Rommel was an evil man who was defeated only by the shining and stellar example of Patton. Etc etc. It wasn't until nearly a decade later when I started reading WW2 history, especially the personal accounts, that I realized that Rommel wasn't an evil man, that his troops loved him for who he was, and his enemies respected him for the same...that Patton was a hard-headed, foul-mouthed egotistical bastard who got the job done, and managed to rub Montgomery's nose in it every single time. That the Battle of the Bulge, instead of being a travesty caused by ____ dropping the ball (insert "green troops" or "British troops" here, depending on textbook), was instead a small slice of Hell on ice where the average Allied grunt dug in and really showed the world what they were made of, regardless of race, creed, or color. With all the PC crap coming to the forefront these days, I'm really scared of what my daughter will be forced to choke down. The one comfort I have is that she will grow up with as thorough an understanding of WW2 (and to a lesser extent, WW1/Korea/Vietnam/GulfWar/Iraq) as I can give her. She will have a thorough respect for the military forces of all nations. And she will know how to politely tell her PC teachers exactly where they can stuff it.

[A4K]

I never trust the press, they always exaggerate things for the sake of a story. My faith in the school education system is on about the same low level. I just hope there are enough people with brains in the world to remember what exactly took place 65 years ago, and who to thank for it.