Were you ever in the Armed Forces -- 2

[P38 Pilot]

Originally Posted by Nonskimmer

I think I read about that. Heh. The tankers up here (who wear black berets also) make a stink every once in a while about the Navy wearing black berets. We had 'em first though, so tough!

He's got a point. It was the Canadian military who first introduced the Beret to us.

Man, now I want a beret. All I have is a Garrison Cap...

[P38 Pilot]

I do like that the Rangers, Special Forces, and Airborne have their own distinct berets anyway.

[Nonskimmer]

Originally Posted by P38 Pilot

He's got a point. It was the Canadian military who first introduced the Beret to us.

Man, now I want a beret. All I have is a Garrison Cap...

No, no, I meant the Canadian armoured crews do the complaining, not your boys, and by "We had 'em first" I meant between the Canadian Navy and our armoured forces. Are you sure the beret was influenced in the US Army by us? I'd never heard of that being the case.


Although it does have a nice ring to it.

[Seawitch]

Originally Posted by P38 Pilot

Nice Seawitch. Are the Royal Green Jackets like our American Green Berets?

Hi P38 Pilot....no, however, the Regiment has it's deepest roots in America.
Ever heard of Rogers Rangers?
The name 'Green Jacket'' stems from the Regiment wearing just that instead of Red Coats.
To quote a few lines fron the Regiments website:
They were the first to wear green uniform as camouflage rather than red, to fire the more accurate rifle instead of muskets and to react much faster to bugle calls for the open order tactics which replaced rigid squares. Their reputation ensured they were first to be selected for employment as motor battalions on the ground and as glider landed troops from the air.
Royal Green Jackets Heritage

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by P38 Pilot

He's got a point. It was the Canadian military who first introduced the Beret to us.

Man, now I want a beret. All I have is a Garrison Cap...

The beret doesn't make the man we don't wear 'em!

[lesofprimus]

All I ever needed was a clean, starched dixie cup, aint that right Joe???

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by lesofprimus

All I ever needed was a clean, starched dixie cup, aint that right Joe???

YEP! But being an Airdale Mech, mine always had at least one greasy thumb print on it!

[evangilder]

Personally, I never gave a crap about what hat I wore, unless it was cold outside, then I just wanted a warm one.

[evangilder]

Here is the history of the military beret, courtesy of ibiblio...

RESEARCH REPORT: MILITARY BERETS


Beret headdress in military uniforms is a relatively modern fashion.
The beret's military appeal did not emerge until World War I, after
which its use became widespread, not just functionally but as a
distinctive badge for elite troops, especially airborne and
commandos. Berets are now eminently fashionable military garb.

The word "beret" traces back in English to 1850 at least, but the cap
itself boasts more ancient origins. Standard reference authorities
attribute the beret as a distinctive article of clothing to the
Basques, a unique ethnic group in the northern Pyrennes region common
to France and Spain. The "boina," a small, round woolen cap with a
flattened top, still typifies Basque peasant dress.

Similar in appearance to boina and beret, and of equally ancient
origin, are the distinctive cloth caps of Scotland: the bonnet and
tam-o-shanter. The early bonnet was much thicker than the modern
beret, whereas the tam-o-shanter is a bonnet with a pom-pon on the
top and is often favored by modern Scots units. The bonnet appeared
in military uniforms at least as early as the English Civil Wars,
being noted at the Battle of Marston Moor, 1644.

The first wearing of an actual beret as part of a military uniform
can probably be attributed to the Spanish. Although none of the
sources consulted for this report document a first appearance of the
beret, several allude to its early Spanish use. Possibly inspired by
beret-wearing Spanish troops, French mountain fighters, the elite
Chasseurs Alpins, adopted in 1891 a large baggy-type beret, deep blue
in color. Earlier, French marines wore a dark blue beret.

Although the warfare of 1914-1918 led to nearly universal adoption of
steel helmets, it also introduced berets into the main-stream of
Western military uniforms. Nearly all pertinent sources identify the
tank as the casual agent. Its cramped and obstructive confines
compelled the British Royal Tank Corps, for one, to adopt a more
functional headgear than their cumbersome and easily-stained khaki
cap. Officially adopted in 1924, the new British black Beret was a
compromise between the "skimpy" beret of the Basque peasant and the
"sloppy" beret of the French Chausseurs
Alpins.






Later, select units within the Tank Corps wore distinctively colored
berets, e.g., gray for the Royal Dragoons (Mechanized) and brown or
red for the 11th Hussars (Armoured). Interestingly, the beret became
a symbol of progress and modernization, with "hidebound colonels"
refusing to allow berets to be worn in their regiments.

Meanwhile, the beret also capped heads in the armed forces of other
European nations, most notably French fortress troops, German tank
troops, and others, as follows:

Belgium: mountain
(Ardennes) troops - green
frontier motorcycle troops - black

France: commandos -green
airborne troops - red
tank corps - black
fortress troops - khaki
mountain troops - blue
Free French independent fighters - maroon

Germany: tank troops
-black

Great Britain: commandos -green
paratroopers - red
all combat troops (1943- ) - khaki
tank troops - black

Italy: royal marines
-green and khaki
royal and republican parachutists - black,
khaki, and green
women's auxilliary corps - green

Soviet Union: Army
Administrative Section (female) - green

Only the British Army appears to have adopted the beret wholesale.
Besides distinctive berets for its elite troops, khaki-cloth berets
became the general service cap, being first issued to Irish troops in
1943 and eventually replacing most other hats in the British Army.

German experience with berets contrasted with the British and French
forces. The only beret-like headgear worn was the short-lived black
panzer cap (Schutzmutze), which consisted of a special leather crash
helmet overfitted with a large beret. By the winter of 1939-1940,
German tank crews no longer wore it.

After 1945, berets proliferated among the armed forces of most
nations. By 1960, berets joined the military uniforms of Canada,
Belgium, France, Great Britain, Iran, Israel, Netherlands, Norway,
Pakistan, and Vietnam. Furthermore, national units of United Nations
peace-keeping forces wore light blue berets.






Meanwhile, the armed forces of the United States were not immune to
this military fashion. The US Marine Corps tested blue and green
berets in 1951, but did not adopt them. (Additional testing by the
Marines took place in 1976-1977.) The US Air Force permitted para-
rescuemen to wear red berets in 1966 and female personnel blue berets
in 1969. Black berets were authorized in the 1970s for US Army
personnel assigned to Ranger units and for all female soldiers. The
US beret's preeminence, however, belongs to the US Special Forces.

The idea and origin of the well-known Green Berets is claimed by
officers of the 77th Special Forces Group in 1954 at Fort Bragg, NC.
Wishing to bolster esprit and distinguish themselves from other
airborne troops, they decided to adopt a distinctive article of
uniform, choosing the beret because of its association with high
professionalism and unconventionality. Their model was the British
Royal Marine Commandos. Without higher authority, these officers
procured from local commercial sources "what looked like man-sized
Girl Scout berets"- and thereby began the legend.

Before that legend encrusted, however, a running battle ensued
between Special Forces and higher headquarters over the unauthorized
headgear. When the 82d Airborne Division attempted to similarly
outfit itself with red berets in 1956, Headquarters, Department of
the Army prohibited all berets. Persistence kept the beret firmly on
the heads of the 10th Special Forces Group in Germany despite
official opposition. Eventually a sympathetic President, John F.
Kennedy, in 1961 bestowed official authorization on the green beret.
Even then, some senior commanders continued to issue "take-off-the-
beret" orders. Not until 1965-66 did Army policy preclude major
commanders from denying Special Forces personnel their privilege to
wear the green wool beret. It required a decade of controversy and
struggle to achieve this particular exception to uniform
standardization.

[Nonskimmer]

Interesting.

But the paras, both British and Canadian anyway, have always worn maroon not red. Red is worn by the military police. In Canada at least.

Incidently, berets were worn by some Canadian troops well before the 1960's. Most notably by the paras and tankers in WWII, just like the Brits.

[102first_hussars]

We still wear the marroon berets in the ppcli just for parade though

[P38 Pilot]

Originally Posted by Nonskimmer

No, no, I meant the Canadian armoured crews do the complaining, not your boys, and by "We had 'em first" I meant between the Canadian Navy and our armoured forces. Are you sure the beret was influenced in the US Army by us? I'd never heard of that being the case.


Although it does have a nice ring to it.

Are you sure? I read somewhere that the Canadian Army had an influence with the beret on the US military. Aw well.

My Cadet Battalion Commander who is in the Army Reserves is allowed to wear his beret during uniform inspection. To me the beret looks better with the Class A and B than with the Garrison Cap.

Originally Posted by Seawitch

Hi P38 Pilot....no, however, the Regiment has it's deepest roots in America.
Ever heard of Rogers Rangers?
The name 'Green Jacket'' stems from the Regiment wearing just that instead of Red Coats.
To quote a few lines fron the Regiments website:
They were the first to wear green uniform as camouflage rather than red, to fire the more accurate rifle instead of muskets and to react much faster to bugle calls for the open order tactics which replaced rigid squares. Their reputation ensured they were first to be selected for employment as motor battalions on the ground and as glider landed troops from the air.

Very interesting history. I looked up Roger's Rangers. Very interesting military history especially during the French-Indian War.

[k9kiwi]

Uh Huh.

And the Canadians thought the Beret up all on their lonesome, which influenced the US Military.

You just Go Girl.

(Excuse the extreme sarcasm). HALOOOOO.. Anyone home in the P-38 cockpit?

[Nonskimmer]

Originally Posted by k9kiwi

Uh Huh. And the Canadians thought the Beret up all on their lonesome...

Cool. Musta been some lonely 'ole French fella, from the tip of the Gaspé.

Merry Christmas, k9.


(I'd call ya kiwi, but Ray nicked that handle long ago.)

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by P38 Pilot

I do like that the Rangers, Special Forces, and Airborne have their own distinct berets anyway.

Most of the army hates the beret. We all wished we could go back to the Patrol Cap. There was no shaping involved nothing, just put in on your head and go, plus it blocked the sun out of your eys.