Are you or have you ever been in the Armed Forces?

[lesofprimus]

straight guys don't spend a whole lot of time taking pictures of a pile of naked men, if you ask me ( unless you are terrorising them of course).

I agree.. I really dont see the whole point to it... Whoever came up with the idea is a real big moron......

Except for getting your pods (thanks for the word, Evan!) shocked, right?

Actually, we did use a crank powered phone once and awhile.. The phone leads were stripped back... Wind one end around the dudes left big toe, and the other around his right one, and give em a crank.... Sure makes em dance.. EEerrrrr..... I mean wiggle.....

[Medvedya]

Yeah, I saw that in a film called 'Tigerland' - not nice!

Mind you, I wonder if army rat packs could be catagorised as torture?

[lesofprimus]

Mind you, I wonder if army rat packs could be catagorised as torture?

If u put the rats in a burlap sack and then throw it over someones head, yea, I'd consider that torture....

[the lancaster kicks ass]

[Maestro]

Thanks, Nonskimmer. I've forgotten East-Canada.

Originally Posted by Crippen

Ok I ( against the better judgment of most people I know), see the need to go to war and the need for armed forces, because by nature a % of humans are complete and utter shyte and beyond any normal laws. But
Les, whether you are willing to see it or not, that it is in-fact torture.
with such open disregard for human life, it's a good job your out of it all now. Feel free to be aggressive towards me Les, I will send virtual hugs right back at ya.

I hate political correctness gone mad, as much as you guys, but when it comes to 'I have a dream' and United Colours of Benetton, you have to say 'fair enough' .

One thing you need to know, Crippen : there is NO law at war. There never was, and never will be. The Geneve Convention sounds good only for paper-workers, not for soldiers.

At war, you have to torture ennemy officers to save your mates' lives and may be civilan lives.

During WW II, when Germany captured Allied or Russian pilots, do you really think Gaestapo did NOT tortured them to get informations ?

The same thing has been done by Allied and Russian MP toward German prisonners. If they haven't done it, may be they couldn't have got the informations to successfully land on D-Day.

That's the same thing in Irak.

When that Marine girl was captured (I think it was during the Afganisthan war, but that's the same bunch of fanatics), she went there on her two legs and was freed by a commando team wich got her away on a stretcher, with her both legs broken and (I think) she got pregnant during her capture time.

There is NO law at war. Don't forget it.

[Nonskimmer]

Originally Posted by Crippen

NonSkimmer, so you are in the Navy now..... tell us more.

Not much to tell, really. I've been in for just shy of sixteen years, been to some interesting places, and met tons of interesting people. I've been to the Persian Gulf a wack of times, done Arctic deployments (they suck! ), and more damn fisheries patrols than I care to count! Oh, and I've consumed a **** load of beer.

After years of serving on destroyers and frigates, I'm currently on a submarine course. Something different, with a small increase in pay.

Originally Posted by Maestro

Thanks, Nonskimmer. I've forgotten East-Canada.

A lot of people do!

[Medvedya]

Originally Posted by Nonskimmer

Oh, and I've consumed a s**t load of beer.

Remember I once mentioned that I had a mate who used to be in the R.N?

That's exactly what he said when he was asked about his time there!

[Nonskimmer]

I've always gotten along great with the 'Kipper' (British) sailors! The boys love to drink, and they love a good scrap!

[kiwimac]

As anyone involved in Intel will tell you, the information gained by torturing someone is always considered 'bad.' This is simply because after awhile people will begin telling you what they think you want to hear JUST TO STOP the pain.

Nope there are better ways to gain intel. As for the prison debacle in Iraq, that was torture, it is unacceptable, worse it was simply damn stupid.

People, this is my first and last comment (unless pressed ), The war in Iraq is stupid, it is tactically dubious at best and downright idiotic at worst and it is actively empowering the creation of new cells of terrorists.

Why stupid? Because the best intel prior to the war beginning showed that Iraq was indeed complying with the UN / US demands concerning weapons.

Why tactically bloody awful:

1: The US has destroyed the infrastraucture and actualy physical structures of a country in order to impose democracy, this has led to the very situation the US was trying to avoid in the first place. An influx of Al-Qaeda and the proliferation of terrorists.

2: The US is trying to fight a guerilla war using conventional means, this did not work in vietnam, it will not work now.

3: After 11 Sept 2001 the US had an enormous amount of sympathy worldwide including in the moderate arab states, this sympathy has been squandered by the US's actions in Iraq. No-one denies that Hussein had to go but it was NOT the job of the US to force a revolution there, that is the right of the Iraqi people.

Further it seems to most of us in the rest of the world that Prez Bush, invaded Iraq simply for the oil. Why? Because otherwise he was invading Iraq under the impression that Hussein was involved in the Sept.11 terrorist action and he simply wasn't. The pilot-terrorists of Sept. 11 were mostly Saudis.

Lastly, all that has happened in the wake of the invasion is that Iraq has become what the US feared it already was, a haven for terrorists, a training ground for the future leaders of Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Al-Qaeda and the like and, unfortunately, a vietnam-like killing ground.

That great General Sun Tzu would consider, IMO, that the gain was NOT offset by the cost.

Kiwimac

[plan_D]

It depends how highly Sun Tzu ranked the capture of Hussein as a gain. In his times a lot of people died to stop one man...

[lesofprimus]

As anyone involved in Intel will tell you, the information gained by torturing someone is always considered 'bad.'

It may be considered bad, but sometimes the info is good and u make something happen, such as what I witnessed.....

This is simply because after awhile people will begin telling you what they think you want to hear JUST TO STOP the pain.

While this is true to a wide degree, under certain circumstances, they will tell the truth instead of winding up dead.... If u have 3 hostages and execute one of them in front of the other 2, chances are that they will truthfully tell u everything in 3 seconds time what u were questioning...

Nope there are better ways to gain intel.

I totally agree.....

As for the prison debacle in Iraq, that was torture

Making an Iraqi strip and pig pile a bunch of other guys aint torture...
"Hey Achmed, atleast they aint breaking our fingers eh?"
"Ya Muhammed... I thought I felt Yuseef touch my balls though...."

torture, it is unacceptable

I totally agree, mainly because I have seen it done before....

worse it was simply damn stupid.

I totally agree.. Probably the stupidest thing next to not closing ALL of Iraqs borders.....

I agree with 99% of what u said... Good points....

[Medvedya]

One trick that can be used is to first beastathon the suspect, and then suddenly be friendly and offer tea/cigarette ect.. the shock can make them crack.

[lesofprimus]

Good Cop/Bad Cop Routine..... I went through a short CIA training class in Somolia on interrogation techniques, and this was one of the more sucessful approaches....

[Medvedya]

Another trick is to make the suspect stand in freezing water, until they're blue with cold, then take them into a hut with six or seven space heaters blazing away. Imagine what happens when the circulation starts up again - aggh! As soon as they're feeling more comfortable, back to the pond!

[Nonskimmer]

Med, you sound like you have experience.