Vote in the Best Pilot Poll.

[Marcel]

Originally Posted by marshall

"On 20 July 1944, Gabreski had reached the 300-hour combat time limit for Eighth Air Force fighter pilots"

"Gabreski was officially credited by the USAF with 28 aircraft destroyed in air combat and 3 on the ground, flying 166 combat sorties."

"Johnson flew a total of 89 combat missions between April 1943 and May 1944." - Robert S. Johnson 27 kills in that time

"He scored 352 aerial victories (of which 345 were won against the Soviet Air Force, and 260 of which were fighters) in 1,404 combat missions and engaging in aerial combat 825 times while serving with the Luftwaffe in World War II." - Hartmann

source wikipedia

Thanks, that's quite a huge difference and explains a lot.

[csisco]

I don't remember where I read this but, acording to allied and German war records. Multiple credits went out for kills, they weren't questioned to much for morale purposes. Allied pilots and bomber gunners frequently shared claims for kills. Also in bomber formations several gunners from different aircraft, would claim the same kill. I believe the estimate was 2 or 3 times more planes were shot down, then actually flew! Except for those made by the 332nd FG, whose claims were rigourously confirmed. They were almost routinely denied, since most claims could only be called probables. Unless the plane was followed all the way down and the plane exploding or pilot bailout was captured on gun camera.

[jaheise]

This sort of debate will never end, nor will the opportunity for the number of sorties ever exist again that existed with WWII. Of all pilots in the US arsenal Richard Bong, Don Gentile, George Preddy, and Francis Gabreski stand out as arguably the best. Given that Gentile "pranged his kite" on his last mission I would not include him for the best pilot shouldn't have that mark on his record. Of the remaining three George Preddy's opportunities were cut short when he tragically shot down and killed by his own forces. Given that Bong and Gabreski had more time to build up their scores than Preddy my "US" vote would go to George Preddy. Given a similar situation exists for Hans-Joachim Marseille compared to his counter-parts he would receive my vote. It's too bad I do not know more about the Soviet pilots who flew with different tatics and equipment than the Germans or Americans. The best statistical judge would be kills/sortie flown - if someone has those figures it would be great to know it. The more equal match of equipment existed in the west so figures by theatre could be misleading (in my opinion).

Overall, my vote currently goes to George Preddy.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by jaheise

Given that Bong and Gabreski had more time to build up their scores than Preddy my "US" vote would go to George Preddy. Given a similar situation exists for Hans-Joachim Marseille compared to his counter-parts he would receive my vote. It's too bad I do not know more about the Soviet pilots who flew with different tatics and equipment than the Germans or Americans. The best statistical judge would be kills/sortie flown - if someone has those figures it would be great to know it. The more equal match of equipment existed in the west so figures by theatre could be misleading (in my opinion).

Overall, my vote currently goes to George Preddy.

Preddy had more combat hours and fewer missions than Gabreski but Bob Johnson had 1/2 of the time and far fewer missions than any of the other US aces in that 25+ range. And Johnson's scores were against a LW that had not been 'bent' as badly as many of Preddy's opponents in late Spring/Summer and Fall of 1944.

[B-17engineer]

I want to say Erich Hartmann

[gunbunny417]

my vote is for richard "dick" bong as greatest pilot.

[lesofprimus]

If u wanna vote, go to the thread where the voting takes place, not in the damn thread that is used to announce the Poll....

[Elizabeth.Schaper@gmail.c]

My father, Armin Schaper, was a submarine bomber pilot during WWII, stationed with the Fleet Air Wing in England. He sadly died on 08-01-2006, but six months before his death, was awarded his wartime medals (two Distinguished Flying Cross medals, eleven Air Medals and one Conspicuous Service Cross medal) for his service, as he participated in the first nightime searchlight mission over the English Channel in total darkness. His plane was named, "Acbas," short for "Ace of the Base." His other nickname was "King of the Spitfires."

He was not only a great pilot, but a wonderful person.

[Njaco]

Elizabeth, welcome to the forum and maybe you could post about your father in the 'Stories' section. Love to hear about him.

[Erich]

Elizabeth you better vote for your father .......... thumbs up

personally I have a few unknowns, not always considered for the best as they would not even be considered since there scores were not above 50 kills. funny these threads and polls just mentioned day fighter guys 99% of the time

[lesofprimus]

Erich, we went through the nightfighter fellas in alot of those previous polls... They just dont get any votes.... Maybe they're just "glamourous" enough???

[Erich]

Dan don't think there are enough pics of the NF's with good looking babe's .............. that has to be the biggest prob.

[Venganza]

Hi - new here and I don't know who the best pilot is, but just as a general question, do you all believe the numbers that the Luftwaffe pilots supposedly put up, Like Erich Hartmann's 352 kills? Considering how propaganda-driven the Third Reich was, I've always been a bit doubtful about these numbers. It seems to me that if they flew the number of sorties they would have had to to post these numbers, just the law of averages would have caught up with them and they would have been killed or crippled before they reached these totals. For example, I read where Marshall said in this thread that Hartmann was involved in 825 aerial combats - I know he was shot down and injured at times, but it still seems to me somewhat unlikely he would have survived that many combats. Even the best Japanese pilot only had 100 kills, if I remember correctly, and like the Nazis, the Japanese flew their pilots until they were killed (they didn't rotate them back like the Americans). Anybody else suspicious?

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by csisco

I don't remember where I read this but, acording to allied and German war records. Multiple credits went out for kills, they weren't questioned to much for morale purposes.

Intelligence was very much interested in damage assessment and not interested in 'morale' per se. Where do you think you might have read otherwise?

Allied pilots and bomber gunners frequently shared claims for kills.

There was serious overclaiming by bomber crews but debriefing at least attempted to isolate time, angles and types claimed for duplicates. Having said that bombers were forced to stay in formation and rarely confirmed one actually hitting the ground - having said that all fractions for a shared award added to one.

Except for those made by the 332nd FG, whose claims were rigourously confirmed. They were almost routinely denied, since most claims could only be called probables. Unless the plane was followed all the way down and the plane exploding or pilot bailout was captured on gun camera.

Where in the world did you hear this tale about the 332nd? The criteria you gave was the same criteria used by USAAF across all theatres and not solely for 332nd FG.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Venganza

Hi - new here and I don't know who the best pilot is, but just as a general question, do you all believe the numbers that the Luftwaffe pilots supposedly put up, Like Erich Hartmann's 352 kills? Considering how propaganda-driven the Third Reich was, I've always been a bit doubtful about these numbers. It seems to me that if they flew the number of sorties they would have had to to post these numbers, just the law of averages would have caught up with them and they would have been killed or crippled before they reached these totals. For example, I read where Marshall said in this thread that Hartmann was involved in 825 aerial combats - I know he was shot down and injured at times, but it still seems to me somewhat unlikely he would have survived that many combats. Even the best Japanese pilot only had 100 kills, if I remember correctly, and like the Nazis, the Japanese flew their pilots until they were killed (they didn't rotate them back like the Americans). Anybody else suspicious?

Not really. The Eastern Front was a target rich environment, and the Luftwaffe was pretty strict on reviewing claims and granting confirmed kills.

As to law of averages - it did catch up with most high scoring aces as most of them were victims also -

As to the Japanese pilots - the intensity and frequency of action in China and Pacific was not of the same scale in context of number of possible engagements.. on either side. Not to mention the fact that the relative performance of Japanese aircraft versus Allied a/c declined as the later model F4U and P-38 and F6F repleced the older fighters and the Japanese stuck to Zero upgrades plus Tony's and other a/c - so Allies frequently dictated combat from high speed and altitude advantages after 1942.

In USSR the LW fighters still exceeded the VVS fighters (in most cases) at medium to high altitude through the end of the war.