3 Terrorists Arrested In Germany on plot to bomb Frankfurt and Ramstein

[Erich]

interesting but good to hear in my opinion. Am hopeful that Hamburg and Ulm/ neu-Ulm will be watched much more intently than before. It's obvious that eastern Germany is still such a hotbed of radicalism and an easy jaunt on the autobahn to places of ease

[Clave]

I don't see how changing the law so I can own a pistol will help the fight against terrorism... I mean, if a suicide bomber came to my house, what should I do? shoot him? that would only make the bomb explode...

I know most government agencies are half-wits, but for these times and situations they are our best defence, and ALL suspicions should be called in - they can only work efficiently when they have the best information...

As for mosques - you want to close them down? Fine, go ahead... and then you will have NO IDEA where fundamentalists are gathering, you might as well walk around blindfolded from then on...

[Erich]

so by your own reasoning you should just let them do as they will correct ? are you afraid to own a side-arm and learn how to use it under proper instruction ?

as to closing down Mosques and then not knowing where they meet, you have to trust your own country's intel from time to time which I will tell you for fact is far beyond your own country's govt. knowledge. Even Bush comes onto details much later in the game. Clinton was told in the past when he was in office and threw the paperwork into the shredder.

clave when you are faced one on one with something as extreme as this you might find at the present you will change your mind. Hopeful it will never have to come to that. the boys with the guns and bullet proofing cannot be everywhere at once. maybe I am getting to in all seriousness that your country and mine need to have the populace literally wake up to the grave possibilites

[Konigstiger205]

Clave has a point...arming civilians won't make much of a difference although its better to have a gun and not need it than need one and not have as for war on terrorism its true....you can't win a war of this type by firepower...a good example is world war 2...french and russians partisans did they job with great effect on the germans and then they would only have France and Russia to hide but the terrorists have the whole planet so you negociate or find a way to outsmart them...

[Erich]

remember we are dealing with the Mideast way of thinking so please do not compare to past wars of attrition in Europe it isn't going to work

[Konigstiger205]

But its the same tactic....hit and run...they will not stand and fight like a normal army so their style is just like the partisans...

[Aussie1001]

Erich is right you cannot compare european conflicts to this, these bas#tards will happily walk into your house with a lump of TNT around their waste and make toast of you and your house and themselves if they thought it would get them any where.

[Lucky13]

Just leave these (censored) b-stards out to the people and let them have their way with them. I'm sure that it would get very nasty....
Didn't you sometimes use some kind of wheel in Germany back in the day Adler?

[Pisis]

There is actually now no known way how to deal with Islamic radicals. Ones say killing them out is the way, others say eat them from inside, as well as another voice is to let them be and they will naturally liberalize...

Every religion had some reforms, so maybe also Islam will have. Don't remember the Crusades? That was then also somewhat a terrorism not unlike to nowadays al-Qaeda attempts... Different times, different ways of gaing the goal, same (stupid) ideas.

This is getting serious, reminds me a bit the late 30's in Germany, when the Nazi movement was on its rise. We are 60 years after the WWII and you can still see neonazis with their little polished baldheads running around...

So, the Islamic radiscals won't disappear, we just need to get used to live with it, try to prevent it as much as possible and know how to behave not to take a risk. E' is absolutely right, he knows by experience.

BTW, see my banner.

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by Pisis

There is actually now no known way how to deal with Islamic radicals. Ones say killing them out is the way, others say eat them from inside, as well as another voice is to let them be and they will naturally liberalize...

Every religion had some reforms, so maybe also Islam will have. Don't remember the Crusades? That was then also somewhat a terrorism not unlike to nowadays al-Qaeda attempts... Different times, different ways of gaing the goal, same (stupid) ideas.

This is getting serious, reminds me a bit the late 30's in Germany, when the Nazi movement was on its rise. We are 60 years after the WWII and you can still see neonazis with their little polished baldheads running around...

So, the Islamic radiscals won't disappear, we just need to get used to live with it, try to prevent it as much as possible and know how to behave not to take a risk. E' is absolutely right, he knows by experience.

BTW, see my banner.

Pisis - the Crusades were a counterattack to take back Christian (Byzantine) land that Islamic expansion had conquered. That part of the equation is often left out. Islam unleashed a terrible torrent of violence on this world from the moment it was conceived. Mohammad was also a soldier - and his successors continued the fight until the Berbers pushed all the way into France, and obviously the Turks in the east pushed as far as Vienna several centuries later. The whole history surrounding the Crusades has been marred by elements that are hostile towards the Catholic Church.

Christian Europe fought for it's right to exist against Islam - and came very close to losing that struggle. That is historical fact. Note I am NOT saying Christian Europe was w/o corruption and was righteous in all intentions. The raiding of Constantinople easily reveals that.

[Pisis]

I agree.

But not only. Another purpose of the crusades was to defeat the infidels and convert them Christianity - that was actually accented much more than the need for regaining lost territories. Just what [radical] Islam wants to accomplish now.

And what about the "3rd" (Children) crusade? Abusing kids to gain political goals - another common point we see...

I wasn't saying that crusades and islamic terrorism are necessarily 100% same but you can see many similarities, so this points out that Christianity went at certain point through a very similar stage that Islam is going through now.

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by Pisis

I agree.

But not only. Another purpose of the crusades was to defeat the infidels and convert them Christianity - that was actually accented much more than the need for regaining lost territories. Just what [radical] Islam wants to accomplish now.

And what about the "3rd" (Children) crusade? Abusing kids to gain political goals - another common point we see...

I wasn't saying that crusades and islamic terrorism are necessarily 100% same but you can see many similarities, so this points out that Christianity went at certain point through a very similar stage that Islam is going through now.

If you mean the Children's Crusade of 1212 - I think first off you will find an acute shortage of actual FACTS on the matter. It seems there was one contingent of French youth, and a second of German. You will find some more historical and professional writings on the matter that indicate that the French King Philip dismissed the notion of a children's crusade. Pope Innocent III also requested the children return home. This would indicate that the Church and the Kingdoms of Europe did not exploit the youth for political gain. It appears, in any case, that very few of the children actually arrived in the Holy Land. It is believed that many ended up settling in towns along the journey, with others sharing the sad fate of being sold into slavery and brothels.

Again - I will state that the Crusades are a gravely misunderstood period, and often politicized by elements with other motives than historical accuracy.

[Pisis]

Well than Islamic terrorism is maybe also misunderstood? They're fighting against occupation of Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine and against misusing Arab owned oil, etc.

Crusades were nothing but misusing an ideal for personal enrichment and/or healing of wounded egoes of the high politicans of that time - the church, emperors, nobility... As 99% of high politic matters are, although always covered into a coat of grandeur and virtue.

Maybe in the beginning the Crusaders fought against the Seljuks but through the time, the whole idea got rotten to the core.

There were continental Crusades against Finland, against the Albigenes, against "troublesome emperors", against the Hussites, Baltis, Elbe Slavs... All of these massacring innocent Jews and "Pagans"...

I agree with you that it is a misunderstood period but it was nothing but struggle for power between Rome, the West and Byzantia.

[Pisis]

To support my thesis, here is what pope Urban II. said in the 1095 Clermont speech: [i]"The Muslims are profaning Christian holy places, churches and altars, they are oppressing Christians, forcing them to conversion to Islam, torturing them awfully. It is right you, French people, who were chosen by God, to perform the revenge. (...) Go to the center of the world - Jerusalem - and take back the city that is screaming for liberation, the land overflowing with milk and honey, make a pilgrim to the Holy Grave."1)

The Crusaders saw themselves as pilgrims but somewhat pilgrims to "extreme environment", who need to make their way through weapons and violence. I see no difference between this and Islamic tero.

1) V. Hrochová, Křížové výpravy ve světle soudobých kronik, pages 25-27.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Pisis

Well than Islamic terrorism is maybe also misunderstood? They're fighting against occupation of Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine and against misusing Arab owned oil, etc.

You dont actually believe this do you? These are some of the people that wish for nothing more than Israel and the Jews to be destroyed.