A380 wake turbulance issues

[syscom3]

I thought this was an interesting artical. This could complicate problems for congested airports that cant afford to open up airspace to accomodate the A380.

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?C...9-334c46bdc648

ICAO: Mammoth Jet Generates Massive Turbulence

Tue, 29 Nov '05

A380 Makes Big Waves... In Its Wake
If "conservative" computer models generated by the International Civil Aviation Organization prove accurate, airplanes following the A380 will have to fly up to three times the normal distance behind the massive airliner in order to avoid its wake turbulence. Such requirements could put some airports' plans to handle the superjumbo in a tailspin.

According to the London Sunday Times, the ICAO models show the double-decker aircraft will produce "significantly stronger" wake vortices off its wingtips than either the Boeing 747 -- the largest commercial airliner flying at the moment -- and even the Boeing 757, a notorious wake generator. "To date, we've come up with some preliminary guidelines for the aircraft... in normal air traffic control operations," said ICAO spokesman Denis Chagnon to Aero-News. "The models reveal the horizontal vortex may have been larger than anticipated, than even the vertical one."

The required safety guidelines, issued earlier this month, recommend aircraft flying directly behind an A380 at cruising altitude should keep minimum spacing of 15 nautical miles, compared to the industry standard of five n.m. On final approach, a minimum 10 n.m. separation would be required -- far above the standard of 3-8 nautical miles currently in force, depending on the comparative sizes of the aircraft. Combined with an additional minute added to departure regulations for aircraft taking off behind an A380, and the wake turbulence guidelines become a real issue -- and puts to question just how much the A380's added passenger capacity offsets such issues.
"If the wake vortex requires separation larger than the 747... it would require adjustments in air traffic control operations," said Chagnon.
(Editor's Note: You may listen to our entire conversation with Chagnon in today's Aero-News Aero-Briefing, available here.)
Wake vortices are essentially "mini-tornados" formed by air rolling off the plane's wingtips (and, to a far lesser extent, the horizontal stabilizer) anytime those surfaces are generating lift. Aircraft encountering these vortices can be displaced, much like when they encounter regular turbulence.
In extreme cases, an aircraft that encounters a strong wake vortex can lose control completely. Many in the industry believe the ICAO guidelines, which were based off flight tests of the A380 prototypes, are conservative... which is something Airbus is counting on. "We don’t want to jump to any conclusions," said an Airbus spokesman. "We are still expecting the (wake of the) aircraft to be similar to the 747."
The guidelines will not be finalized until summer of 2006.

[FLYBOYJ]

Great info Sys!!!

Another aircraft that makes huge vortices's is the B757. Although a "medium" size commercial aircraft, when it's "dirty" on landing it really throws out the vortices's. Sys - if you're ever at John Wayne on a foggy day you could compare its wake to other aircraft its size (B737, A320) - I knew a guy who survived getting caught up a 757s wake - he rolled a Cessna 152!!!

[pbfoot]

the guy in the 152 is lucky he's around to talk about it .Was it contoller or pilot error if the boeing was that lo sounds like the contoller would be at fault as it would have happened in the control zone if outside the zone the pilot in the 152 must have been blind or not the sharpest tack in the pack for getting that close and not listening out

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

the guy in the 152 is lucky he's around to talk about it .Was it contoller or pilot error if the boeing was that lo sounds like the contoller would be at fault as it would have happened in the control zone if outside the zone the pilot in the 152 must have been blind or not the sharpest tack in the pack for getting that close and not listening out

He was a student pilot - the controllers warned him - he just kept putting along - after he landed they called him up to the tower - he thought he was going to get an ass chewing, the controllers actually wanted to know what it was like to roll a 152 in a 757 wake and survive!!!

[evangilder]

Damn! Interesting lesson to learn as a student.

[Henk]

I like the Boeing 747 and the Airbus A-380. Both great aircraft but the monster of them all is the Antonov 225 monster of a aircraft. I know the A-380 and the B-747 are passenger aircraft, but the Antonov 225 kicks ass.

Henk

[loomaluftwaffe]

Its sad that many people have never heard if it nor know that it is the biggest plane in the world

[Henk]

Do you mean the Antonov 225 or A-380 looma?

Henk

[loomaluftwaffe]

Antonov! i don't see that huge plane on the news as often

[Henk]

Here she is still in her CCCP colors. She is a freight carrier today over Europe.

Oh, yes thanks to Airliners.net for the pics.

Henk

[Henk]

Oh, yes thanks looma now I can post pics again.

Henk

[loomaluftwaffe]

all the image says is OOPS!my image for this link is no longer here image

[Henk]

It works perfectly here I do not know why you can not see it.

Will check it out.

Henk

[the lancaster kicks ass]

don't see that huge plane on the news as often

because she's never really doing much these days..........

[Henk]

It is a shame to see such part of history just not mattering any more.

Henk