happy 4th of july

102first_hussars · 07-10-2006, 05:24 PM

I was never talking about fighting the British, I was talking about fighting for the British, as the Boer war to the end of the second world war we gained more control over our own decisions, foriegn affairs, we were the first dominion to have its own navy for christ sakes

Maestro · 07-10-2006, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 102first_hussars

... as the Boer war to the end of the second world war we gained more control over our own decisions...

In fact it's from the Boer war to the end of the First World War. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Canada became independent from Great-Britain in the Inter-war years... In 1927, if I remember well. Even if we only got our current flag in the 50s.

pbfoot · 07-10-2006, 06:43 PM

1931 Treaty of Westminister and 1965/64 we changed from the red ensign

Nonskimmer · 07-10-2006, 10:08 PM

Leave it to a buncha guys from Canada to spoil a perfectly good 4th of July thread by turning it into a Canadian circus. Me, me, me, me, us, us, us, us! Hey, look at us everyone! Ha!

Yes, so once again Happy Independence Day, America. Even if it's been a week already.

So, where were we? Right, the independence thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbfoot

1931 Treaty of Westminister and 1965/64 we changed from the red ensign

It's Statute of Westminster. The Treaty of Westminster was something totally different.

Ya know, regardless of statutes and what have you, we've really been more or less running our own show since not too long after Confederation in 1867. Like around 1871, with the Washington Treaty and the formation of the Canadian Army. You know we'd do basically whatever the hell we wanted anyway if our minds were made up, regardless of what the Brits said. That's just the way we are.

Nine times out of ten though, we'd be right there by their side, like good little subjects of the king. The Statute of Westminster was more or less formality in our case, just like the repatriation of the constitution in '82. But it didn't just apply to us, it applied to Newfoundland (not part of Canada at the time), Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and Ireland. Britain more or less officially said, "Right, off you go. Have fun, and don't stray too far from home, ok?". They officially recognized us as equals.

As for flags, what's the difference with respect to independence? Australia and New Zealand still have the Union Jack in their flags. It doesn't mean sh*t. We just wanted something uniquely Canadian, that's all. In fact a lot of francophones still hate the fact that it's red and white only. They see them as English colours, because they were made the official colours of Canada by King George V. They'd be happier if it contained some blue, to represent the French part of our heritage.

Maestro · 07-11-2006, 02:52 AM

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Originally Posted by Nonskimmer

As for flags, what's the difference with respect to independence? Australia and New Zealand still have the Union Jack in their flags. It doesn't mean sh*t.

Well, personnally, I think that an independent country still having an Union Jack in their flag are still considering themselves as being King's minions... Even if they aren't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonskimmer

We just wanted something uniquely Canadian, that's all. In fact a lot of francophones still hate the fact that it's red and white only. They see them as English colours, because they were made the official colours of Canada by King George V. They'd be happier if it contained some blue, to represent the French part of our heritage.

In fact, I didn't even knew about the George V thing. It just prove that we were still taking orders from overseas. The flag was designed in the 60s and we were still doing as an English King (dead in 1936) wanted.

If I had been on the design team, I would have said : "Piss on the King ! Are we Independent or not ?"

If I had the choice, I would have chosen one of these two below.

I think the main problem in our country is that we, the Non-English, still see the English-Canadians as being attached to the British Crown. Get us rid of that idea and I can bet that you'll see the separatist movement drop from 48% to a thin 25% or even 10%.

Nonskimmer · 07-11-2006, 04:13 AM

You're right, we do still see ourselves as the queen's minions. So do the Australians and New Zealanders, as a matter of fact.

So what? It don't mean a damn thing.
I personally don't see anything wrong with our flag the way it is.

I like it, and I'm no monarchist. The only ones who even give a sh*t about the colours are francos. Hell, most anglophones in Canada don't even know the historical significance of red and white, I'll guarantee it. Maybe one in seven or eight. Big freakin' deal.

Incidentally, that second example of yours with the three leaves was favoured by then Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson. It was known as the "Pearson Pennant".

trackend · 07-11-2006, 06:18 AM

I'd never call you a minion Skim more of a minnow what with your watery connections, at least the silly cow don't cost you 68p every year out of your taxes.she should be bowing to us not the other way round .

102first_hussars · 07-11-2006, 02:51 PM

Well I can say our current flag is pretty original, we came close to using another red white and blue design,

Nonskimmer · 07-11-2006, 03:25 PM

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Originally Posted by trackend

at least the silly cow don't cost you 68p every year out of your taxes.

The Queen, no. The Governor General, yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 102first_hussars

Well I can say our current flag is pretty original, we came close to using another red white and blue design,

Have you ever seen the book called I Stand For Canada? It's all about the current flag, and what led up to it's adoption in the first place. In it are some of the proposed flag designs that were looked at back then, and man oh man, there are a few charmers there, let me tell ya.

One of them was nothing more than the Union Jack with four fleur-de-lis added, to represent the French. How f*cked up would that have looked? Another one looked like the Norwegian flag. But Christ Almighty, some of them were just designed by people on speed! They had to have been! In amongst the crap were a few interesting proposals though, and almost every one of them centred around the maple leaf. That's long been a Canadian symbol, so it made perfect sense for the flag.

pbfoot · 07-11-2006, 03:54 PM

well here is an original which I dug up from my relics

Nonskimmer · 07-11-2006, 04:15 PM

Yep, the Pearson Pennant. It was one of the three finalists for the new flag, back in 1964-'65. The other two were, of course, our present flag, and one that was almost identical to the present flag except that it had the Union Jack in the upper left corner and a fleur-de-lis banner in the upper right. It looks hideous.

Another hum-dinger from the book here was just Québec's provincial flag with the Union Jack in the canton. Yeah, that would have made everyone happy alright. Christ.

Henk · 07-11-2006, 07:28 PM

Well boys if it were not for South Africa which said at the commonwealth meatthing that the Dominions should have the same rights and powers as Great Briton has we all would have still been totally ruled by the UK.

102first_hussars · 07-11-2006, 08:05 PM

Its interesting how you guys (south africa and US) struggled to be independant through suffering while Canada just politely asked "could we be independant" and britain said "Well since you asked nicely, I dont see why not" I know thats not exactly how it happened but we did ask them.

Henk · 07-11-2006, 08:14 PM

We also gained it in 1961, we did not fight the Boer war to gain Independence we fought the invaders. The Boer States Transvaal and Vrystaat did not attack the British Armed forces they attacked the Boer States.

I must say that the UK did much for South Africa and the same goes for South Africa doing much for the UK.

Maestro · 07-11-2006, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonskimmer

You're right, we do still see ourselves as the queen's minions. So do the Australians and New Zealanders, as a matter of fact.

So what? It don't mean a damn thing.

I have to desagree there. We cannot see ourselves as the King's/Queen's minions and also claim to be an independent country.

You see, that's the main reason why the separatist movement is so high in Québec (around 48%). If the English-Canadians really acted as Canadians instead of acting like "deportated Britons", the separatist percentage would drop like lead ballons. Why ? Because we never liked the idea of being ruled by a king living thousands of miles away from us. Even if it's more like a symbol now, the Queen of England is still the Queen of Canada.

You want a strong and unified Canada ? Then get rid of the Governor General and Lieutenant Governors, get rid of all that royal bullsh*t like the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the Royal 22nd Regiment, the Royal Winnipeg Rifles, the Royal Canadian Air Force, the Royal Canadian Navy and so on... Why everything in Canada has to be Royal ? That royally sucks !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonskimmer

Incidentally, that second example of yours with the three leaves was favoured by then Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson. It was known as the "Pearson Pennant".

Yeah, I know. I typed "Alternate Canadian Flag" on Google and that's what came out.