 | Honour in War ??| OFF-Topic / Misc. Discuss Honour in War ?? in the Current forums; Is there any such thing as Honour in War or is just kill or be killed last man standing. Is ... |
|
12-22-2005, 11:31 AM
|
#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,205
Country:  | Honour in War ??
Is there any such thing as Honour in War or is just kill or be killed last man standing. Is honour in war a silly concept even ? Can two enemies fight honourably or no way.
ie In WW2 USA pilots were encoraged (not sure if it was a rule or not) to shoot pilots that parachuted out of jet planes. While every nation did shoot pilots in the parachutes on ocassion I think that USA was the only nation to encourage it. Anyone help clear this up as a side note.
In "The First and the Last" Galland says he was approached by Goering to see if his fighter pilots would think of that, Galland said he would never do it or tell his pilots to do it. Is that silly or honorable?
After reading many books on German Aces a few of them tell stories about how they let go or even escorted enemy planes that were shot up back to their lines, instead of shooting them down. Is that silly or honorable?
I would really like to hear from everyone on this one but I would really like to hear from any guys that are actually vets (plz let us know that you are a vet if you are) of any conflict on this.
Thanks Mark
__________________ 
In the ocean of the military, reflective of all distinguished pilots, an honored Buddhist person. | 
|  | |
12-22-2005, 02:20 PM
|
#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,205
Country: | No comments ?
__________________
In the ocean of the military, reflective of all distinguished pilots, an honored Buddhist person. | |
| | |
12-22-2005, 06:16 PM
|
#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,057
Country:  | You're a tit.
The code of honour has been 'written' in the minds of warriors for centuries. What defines honour in combat and honour in society is completely different. Basing combat off what you encounter day in and day out is 'silly'.
Honour in war is pulling a little humanity and respect out of something that is everything but honourable, and respectful.
Letting a man float to the ground - honourable.
Escorting a crippled plane back to it's own lines after an impressive 'show' - honourable.
But this would have to be the point of view of the man, or men, in combat. There are no real rules of conflict, despite the fact there's attempts to impose some. However, rules, guidelines and 'laws' are written into that nations culture ...
Honour in war is a culture thing.
And the U.S didn't encourage shooting people in parachutes. That's just arse, and you know it.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | |
| | |
12-22-2005, 07:52 PM
|
#4 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,965
Country:  | Ask about Japanese shooting US pilots out of their chutes!
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT"  | |
| | |
12-22-2005, 08:22 PM
|
#5 | | He who does not skim
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,957
Country: | Re: Honour in War ??
Quote: |
Originally Posted by Hunter368 In WW2 USA pilots were encoraged (not sure if it was a rule or not) to shoot pilots that parachuted out of jet planes. While every nation did shoot pilots in the parachutes on ocassion I think that USA was the only nation to encourage it. | What are you basing that on? Did you read it in a book or see it online somewhere? TV maybe?
Are you talking about an official directive to shoot German pilots in their chutes? | |
| | |
12-22-2005, 10:03 PM
|
#6 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,965
Country: | I actually saw a documentary recently where a US pilot was talking about shooting German pilots while parachuting - there were doing this in retribution for the same action by the Germans - If I remember their command told them to knock it off....
I think the interviewee was Bud Anderson?!
If this did happen I think it was far and few in the western front, now if we were talking the Russian front, I won't be surprised.
I would tend to believe the Japanese were probably the over-all parachute aces of WW2....
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
| | |
12-22-2005, 11:08 PM
|
#7 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,486
Country: | Where the hell did you hear that the US "encouraged" pilots to shoot guys in their parachutes? That is a load of claptrap. I am sure there were pilots that did, but it was not the official policy.
As far as honor in war, I think that sounds too much like a college course taught by some academic beard stroker.
Having seen a few firefights in my life, I can tell you that I saw some guys do some crazy brave things. I saw people do stupid things, suicidal things and just plain bad things. How you guage things as honorable, stupid, brave or cowardly is really a judgement call. But no one who wasn't there can make that determination.
Having said that, you want honorable? Look at ANY US medic. There isn't a medic that I have met that wasn't a first class, number one ****ing HERO.
__________________  http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | |
| | |
12-23-2005, 03:37 AM
|
#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Japan
Posts: 451
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Ask about Japanese shooting US pilots out of their chutes! | As Japanese saliors about US pilots straffing troops swiming away from sinking troop carriers.
Bad things happened by all sides during the war. Let he who has commited no sin cast the first stone.
Generally speaking, the Western Allies held up certain notions of humanity and equality better than their Axis or Soviet counterparts, but even they have their own shameful moments. | |
| | |
12-23-2005, 07:53 AM
|
#9 | | Minister of Whoopass
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Long Island Native in Mississippi
Posts: 12,897
Country: | In the book that erich and I are reading, VOL.I JG 300, there are numerous instances where German pilots were strafed while in their chutes, and the different interviewees thought it a cowardly and dastardly act...
On the plus side, not many seem to actually get hit, which leads me to possibly believe that the Americans were firing their guns to get film footage and confirm the kill....
But I agree with everyone... It happened everywhere, and all parties were guilty... However I will state that strafing swimming troops on the way to the beach where ur brothers are fighting for their lives makes perfect sense...
__________________  "Boyington was a Drunk, but He was a Drunk We'd Follow Straight Into Hell..."
-- Lt. William Northrop Case | |
| | |
12-23-2005, 08:31 AM
|
#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,205
Country: | Re: Honour in War ??
Quote: |
Originally Posted by Nonskimmer Quote: |
Originally Posted by Hunter368 In WW2 USA pilots were encoraged (not sure if it was a rule or not) to shoot pilots that parachuted out of jet planes. While every nation did shoot pilots in the parachutes on ocassion I think that USA was the only nation to encourage it. | What are you basing that on? Did you read it in a book or see it online somewhere? TV maybe?
Are you talking about an official directive to shoot German pilots in their chutes? | I have read it and heard on TV many times.... I am surprised you guys have not, but I am not trying to start anything by saying that, I have heard it so many times I thought it was common knowledge. I will have to reseach it and I will quote those books. No problem I will find it for you guys and let you know then.
__________________
In the ocean of the military, reflective of all distinguished pilots, an honored Buddhist person. | |
| | |
12-23-2005, 08:34 AM
|
#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,205
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by evangilder Where the hell did you hear that the US "encouraged" pilots to shoot guys in their parachutes? That is a load of claptrap. I am sure there were pilots that did, but it was not the official policy.
As far as honor in war, I think that sounds too much like a college course taught by some academic beard stroker.
Having seen a few firefights in my life, I can tell you that I saw some guys do some crazy brave things. I saw people do stupid things, suicidal things and just plain bad things. How you guage things as honorable, stupid, brave or cowardly is really a judgement call. But no one who wasn't there can make that determination.
Having said that, you want honorable? Look at ANY US medic. There isn't a medic that I have met that wasn't a first class, number one f*cking HERO. |
Evan, like I said in my other post I will find the sources of that, I thought it was common knowledge I have seen it so much, I meant no insult. Yes I agree medics have a crazy tuff job. They are heros in a often thankless job.
__________________
In the ocean of the military, reflective of all distinguished pilots, an honored Buddhist person. | |
| | |
12-23-2005, 09:11 AM
|
#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,845
Country:  | "ie In WW2 USA pilots were encoraged (not sure if it was a rule or not) to shoot pilots that parachuted out of jet planes."
that's ****ing bullshit! if someone did so, it was his own initiative....... it happened of course but it couldn't be a law........ | |
| | |
12-23-2005, 09:20 AM
|
#13 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 2,205
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Pisis "ie In WW2 USA pilots were encoraged (not sure if it was a rule or not) to shoot pilots that parachuted out of jet planes."
that's f*cking bullshit! if someone did so, it was his own initiative....... it happened of course but it couldn't be a law........ | Like I said I will try and find a few sources for you guys, I will get back to you. If it is wrong that is fine, I just have read several times. Maybe the guys writing it were wrong.
__________________
In the ocean of the military, reflective of all distinguished pilots, an honored Buddhist person. | |
| | |
12-23-2005, 09:26 AM
|
#14 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,845
Country: | maybe....... | |
| | |
12-23-2005, 09:49 AM
|
#15 | | IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 12,965
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ Ask about Japanese shooting US pilots out of their chutes! | As Japanese saliors about US pilots straffing troops swiming away from sinking troop carriers.
Bad things happened by all sides during the war. Let he who has commited no sin cast the first stone.
Generally speaking, the Western Allies held up certain notions of humanity and equality better than their Axis or Soviet counterparts, but even they have their own shameful moments. | Shooting pilots from their chutes is one thing, strafing troops, especially troops that fought ferociously and won't surrender is another..
But I agree with the 2dn statement 100%
__________________ "IF ITS RED OR DUSTY, DON'T TOUCH IT" | |
| | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode | 
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:26 PM. | | |
