Join the Army or go to jail....

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by T4.H

In my opinion, the justice system of the USA is not fair. It is a big difference, if you are rich or poor.

Just like every other justice system in the world including Germany's.

Originally Posted by T4.H

I would fear, that the US Army starts to "order" new recruits at some judges.

What?

Originally Posted by T4.H

The US-Army lacks of educated and also motivated soldiers...

Excuse me lacks educated Soldiers? Where do you come up with this. Sorry but you dont know what you are talking about.

Did you know that more people in the US Army have a college education than probably any other military in the world.

You also say the US Army lacks motivated soldiers? Where do you come up with this as well? Have you served in the US Army?

No...

I have and I can tell you are wrong again. Sorry but you dont know what you are talking about.

Have you been watching ZDF again? Everytime I see this very political and anti American TV Channel I laugh because it is wrong in 90 percent of what it broadcasts.

Originally Posted by T4.H

And around the world, the US Army is nowadays famous for there war-crimes especially in Irak...

And in that case they are wrong. War-Crimes has been very minimal in Iraq. In fact there have not been any war crimes. There have been things done that probably should not have been done but there wer eno war crimes.

The US Army does not have a policy of torture or a policy of killing innocent civilians.

As a veteran of Iraq I am ed.

[T4.H]

Did you read my post?

Also if the other side commits war crimes, you didn't have the right to do so.
This you should know.
Bullshit. In war all armys commit war crimes. Some more, some less. But they commit war crimes. Lighter ones or realy bad ones. In each war, everywhere.
Soldiers are humans. You have nice guys, and bad boys. I am one of them, who believes that (less or more, the few % who wouldn't do this, didn't count) everyone can get a killer.
You have only get angry frustrated or demotivated enough.
I'm pretty sure, that I am one of this.
And the most worth thing is, if someone get the chance to play god. Think of Abu Ghuraib.
Even german soldiers have committed some war crimes in Afganistan (only lighter ones). Now they are in trouble.
I have to accepted, that in war, soldiers commit war crimes. I didn't accept, if they commit too much of them. And if they didn't get in prison.
With each war crime and also with each bomb, which hit the wrong ones, you produce thousands of persons, who hates you. And perhaps 10 to thousand persons, who decide to fight you.
I'm pretty sure because of Abu Ghraib, there were more than 1000 terrorist produced and perhaps US 100 soldiers and thousands of irak civilians have died till now. Unimportant how much you hate the other side, you have to be intelligent enough not to commit any war crimes. Or be intelligent enough, to do it, when noone has a chance to recognice it.

Have you read the Genfer convention? I did. Because I couldn't believe that the Talibans are "soldiers"...they are. Captured ones are POW's with all rights.
It is not allowed to make an interrogation! And also the rest is not allowed what is done. No camps everywhere in the world, in which they disappear. Not these one in cuba, afganistan, rumania etc...
Don't understand me wrong, I don't like them. And personally, if they die, it wouldn't care me. But because of this, you have the Genfer convention. Because of persons who wouldn't care.

I remember now...(Queensryche)

Do you remember:
The lonely Iraki soldier, hunted by a AH64 with the 3 cm gun?
BAmBAmBAmFalls down, stand up again...BAmBAmBAm Falls down...
It is not allowed, to shoot with a 3 cm gun on soldiers (genfer convention)

The wounded one trying to get away from his car...And the gunner of the AH64 saying to his pilot (something like): There is a wounded one. I can't kill him.
Pilot (something like): Shoot on the car...
Perhaps one or two of the bullets hit the car...the rest...went next to it...
It is not allowed, to shoot on wounded ones...and with 3 cm...

Or the group going into a building, several wounded one where lying in this building (since a day?).
One of the soldier was shouting on one of the wounded...then he shot him in his head, half a meter distance...

I have perhaps a different opinion, what a warcrime is. For me this are warcrimes.

Originally Posted by T4.H

In my opinion, the justice system of the USA is not fair. It is a big difference, if you are rich or poor.

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Just like every other justice system in the world including Germany's.

Yep of course. Did I say, the system in my country is better? I haven't said this.

[quote=T4.H;298558]I would fear, that the US Army starts to "order" new recruits at some judges[quote]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

What?

Ok...this was not correct. Let say it on another way. If a justice is pro army. He believes, the army needs more soldiers. This can influence his decision. Even if he didn't want.

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Excuse me lacks educated Soldiers? Where do you come up with this. Sorry but you dont know what you are talking about.

Did you know that more people in the US Army have a college education than probably any other military in the world.

You also say the US Army lacks motivated soldiers? Where do you come up with this as well? Have you served in the US Army?

No...

OK, this was wrong. In a modern army, less or more you needed only high educated soldiers.
Come on, after several years of war, the motivation of the ground forces is down. Every day something blows up somewhere. Someone is shooting on you. Sniper attacks. And most time you didn't see the enemy. What do you fear most? This one, you didn't see. They didn't get enough sleep.
This is normal.

[evangilder]

Blah blah blah....WHERE ARE YOU FACTS?!?! Your clock is ticking, mister.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by T4.H

Did you read my post?

Also if the other side commits war crimes, you didn't have the right to do so.
This you should know.
Bullshit. In war all armys commit war crimes. Some more, some less. But they commit war crimes. Lighter ones or realy bad ones. In each war, everywhere.
Soldiers are humans. You have nice guys, and bad boys. I am one of them, who believes that (less or more, the few % who wouldn't do this, didn't count) everyone can get a killer.

Yes Soldiers are humans but tell me what war crimes have been made by US Soldiers in Iraq.

Seriously. I dont think you can come up with a serious one. Yes things have been done that probably should not have been done but there were no war crimes committed.

You saying that the US Army has a reputation for committing war crimes is absolutely bullshit and not true.

Originally Posted by T4.H

Unimportant how much you hate the other side, you have to be intelligent enough not to commit any war crimes. Or be intelligent enough, to do it, when noone has a chance to recognice it.

So because a few make some mistakes you believe the whole US Army is "unintelligent". Were all Germans "unintelligent" because of the war crimes committed against the jews.

Originally Posted by T4.H

Have you read the Genfer convention? I did. Because I couldn't believe that the Talibans are "soldiers"...they are. Captured ones are POW's with all rights.

Yeah I have read the Geneva Convention. It is standard training for US soldiers.

Terrorists are not soldiers....

They are not covered by the Geneva Convention. If they believed in the Geneva Convention none of this would have been happening because there would still be two really big towers in New York and several thousand people would still be alive!

Originally Posted by T4.H

Do you remember:
The lonely Iraki soldier, hunted by a AH64 with the 3 cm gun?
BAmBAmBAmFalls down, stand up again...BAmBAmBAm Falls down...
It is not allowed, to shoot with a 3 cm gun on soldiers (genfer convention)

The wounded one trying to get away from his car...And the gunner of the AH64 saying to his pilot (something like): There is a wounded one. I can't kill him.
Pilot (something like): Shoot on the car...
Perhaps one or two of the bullets hit the car...the rest...went next to it...
It is not allowed, to shoot on wounded ones...and with 3 cm...

You obviously have not seen the full video. This is a perfect example of how you only see a part of something and make judgements off of not knowing the whole thing that happened.

I have seen the whole video....

Our unit replaced them and we were shown the full video.

Originally Posted by T4.H

Or the group going into a building, several wounded one where lying in this building (since a day?).
One of the soldier was shouting on one of the wounded...then he shot him in his head, half a meter distance...

You are talking about the incident in Falujah correct? Do you know the whole story? I take it no...

Right before this happened the wounded Iraqi had just killed this soldiers battle buddy. In the shock and anger that he felt he killed the man who killed his friend.

Yeah he probably should not have done so, however unless you have felt what he felt dont judge the man for a mistake. It was not a war crime.

Originally Posted by T4.H

I have perhaps a different opinion, what a warcrime is. For me this are warcrimes.

It is easy to judge from sitting in your comfortable and safe living room...

[Lucky13]

And what would all that the suicide bombers be called then? Never mentioned them. THAT is war crime to me....how many have they killed, and civilians too, remember?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

And what would all that the suicide bombers be called then? Never mentioned them. THAT is war crime to me....how many have they killed, and civilians too, remember?

Its okay Lucky. They are not US Soldiers....

[Lucky13]

Just a tad bit upset Adler, sorry! Accusing US soldiers of war crimes....and not mention those b*st*rds... I have nothing but the outmost respect for you guys, should it be needed, I'll be first in line to pick up your weapon....freedom is worth fighting for, even if some people are too stupid or ignorant to realize that..

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

No serously its okay Lucky.

The Taliban are intelligent and motivated soldiers.

[Lucky13]

Motivated because when the people come to power, and democracy(?) is installed once again, those that was working for Saddam will be in deep sh*t me thinks...

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Motivated because when the people come to power, and democracy(?) is installed once again, those that was working for Saddam will be in deep sh*t me thinks...

I was not being serious Lucky....

[T4.H]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

And what would all that the suicide bombers be called then? Never mentioned them. THAT is war crime to me....how many have they killed, and civilians too, remember?

I have mentioned it...I wrote something, I have still not finished. Before I edited it.
Terrorists are no soldiers. These are terrorists.
Also if the other side commits war crimes, you didn't have the right to do so.


Adler:
You are talking about the incident in Falujah correct? Do you know the whole story? I take it no...

Right before this happened the wounded Iraqi had just killed this soldiers battle buddy. In the shock and anger that he felt he killed the man who killed his friend.

Yeah he probably should not have done so, however unless you have felt what he felt dont judge the man for a mistake. It was not a war crime.

For me it is a war crime



Did you want to understand me wrong?

I wrote:
>>>>>>
And around the world, the US Army is nowadays famous for there war-crimes especially in Irak...
>>>>>>
Did I say, they commit many? Or more than expected? I wanted to say, that everone in the world starts to believe it. Ok, perhaps, this sentence could be understood on the wrong way.

Now I will finish in this thread. It's useless. Believe, what you want to believe, define, how you want to defin war crime.

I'm now frustrated and demotivated to dicuss any further with you about this.

[Lucky13]

Oh........DOGH! Sorry Adler, missed that... I owe you a nice dram mate.

[plan_D]

T4 has never read the GENEVA convention, it's obvious when he cannot even spell it. The GENEVA convention marks soldiers as those fighting in uniform, under the GENEVA convention anyone who fights in civilian clothing can be considered a spy and shot on the spot. The GENEVA convention also makes no mention of high calibre rounds being illegal against enemy personel.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

T4.H it is easy to judge a young soldier when you are sitting in a comfortable living room and not on the battlefield with him.

You are entitled to your own opinion and that is fine but this whole discussion would have been a lot easier if you had not said that US Soldiers are unintelligent and not motivated. Especially when there are US soldiers and Ex US soldiers (like myself) in this forum.

I dont take it very kindly to being called unintelligent...

See what I mean?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Oh........DOGH! Sorry Adler, missed that... I owe you a nice dram mate.

I told you allready once before that you need to be careful what you say. Me and my wife might be touring England, Scotland and Ireland next year. If we are up there I will drive out of my way to have a Scotch with you!