Join the Army or go to jail....

[Aggie08]

To answer the first post, I think the military really does change people. I'm 21 and I've never served but I honestly think it straightens people out. Petty little crimes will not, I don't think, affect a soldier's commitment or performance. If the United States feels he is qualified to enter combat then I think it will not be a problem. Equating the Service with a punishment isn't right but perhaps those in question could be given a choice, avoiding the negative connotation.

[Njaco]

Sorry, Adler and T4 if my crude joke was inappropriate, But...

Art 16. Protection of cultural objects and of places of worship

Without prejudice to the provisions of the Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict of 14 May 1954, it is prohibited to commit any acts of hostility directed against historic monuments, works of art or places of worship which constitute the cultural or spiritual heritage of peoples, and to use them in support of the military effort.
>>>>>>
This also means, that you have protect them of destruction or demolishen.
I remember the US soldiers standing in front of the museum of bagdad, while the civilians were stealing everything.
You also remember?

Is there any sympathy and outrage over the church destroyed next to the World Trade Center?

These one, who where released from Guantanamo, or more worse, from the other camps, said something different.
Die Gefangenen von Guantánamo Bay — Amnesty International Schweiz
I saw some interviews with Khaled El-Masri.
Our german problem.
Till now, if it was possible, everything he has said has been proven.
And now we have a problem. In the prison camp in afganistan 2 german KSK soldiers have met him.
He has identified them. And with pictures could be proven, that the german soldiers didn't tell the truth.

I may be wrong but didn't he say crimes by american soldiers?

and as for the worst crime, check this...
The real story of Haditha Leaning Straight Up Blog Archive

and the best from that website is...

At Haditha, did the Marines act reasonably and appropriately based on their training? They were in a hostile combat situation where deadly force was authorized against suspected triggermen for the IED, and were ordered to assault a suspected insurgent hideout. In retrospect, the men in the car had no weapons or explosives; in retrospect, the people in the house were not insurgents. No one knew at the time.(my underline)

Innocents were killed at Haditha,, as they inevitably are in all wars--though that does not excuse or justify wrongdoing. Yet neither was Haditha the atrocity or "massacre" that many assumed--though errors in judgment may well have been committed. And while some violent crimes have been visited on civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan, overall the highly disciplined U.S. military has conducted itself in an exemplary fashion. When there have been aberrations, the services have typically held themselves accountable.

T4 chill on the accusations and take a breather. In any war, all sides commit mistakes or worse but never is it a total reflection on the country or force as a whole, contrary to what the media would want you to believe.

[DOUGRD]

Originally Posted by T4.H

Who are prisoner of war (Part)
Art 4. A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:[
(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) that of carrying arms openly;
(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

(3) Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

T4 I would like to clarify something for you here without sounding like I'm ganging up on you. But make no mistake, I am not your ally in this debate. In the above excerpt from the G.C. I believe the "Key" word is PARTY. If you look this up it means a particular country recognized as such by the U.N. and not a bunch of bottom feeders (insurgents) who are not afiliated with or in the uniform of or on the payroll of a legitimately recognized country. And they certainly do not conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. Do they? Not hardly. As far as your sources for your arguments may I offer this suggestion. Be careful because many times one news source will "piggyback" on another. This means the second news source will repeat the facts of the first source without verifying the information first and pretty soon an incident which was just a small incident becomes a major development reported by every news source in the world. Sometimes the first source is full of sh*t as I personally experienced with CNN in the Persian Gulf back in '87 the story of which I posted in a different thread a while ago. Wikipedia!!! When did that become a reliable news source? Good Luck!

[DOUGRD]

Charles, Do you remember back in the '50's and '60's judges did give some people "THE CHOICE". If I remember correctly the courts had certain guidelines as to who was eligible. I think it was just petty offenses. HEY!!!! Wait a d*mn minute, Is that why they called us "Petty Officers"

[Njaco]

And what petty crime did YOU commit!!

[DOUGRD]

Originally Posted by Njaco

And what petty crime did YOU commit!!

I swear she told me she was 18!!!! I got witnesses.

[Njaco]

and once again the thread takes another turn to the dark side!

[magnocain]

Didnt we try something like that in Vietnam?

Cerial killers could be killed (without 10 years of tax-waisting appeals), or shiped to war to kill bad-guys. But then they would probily kill the wrong people.

Humans need to get vioence out, and in our feminine culture people are stoped from doing that. That is why football is so popular, cause of all the violence. Kids in central LA (for example), have few opportunities to do this, so they end up in gang wars.

Perhaps a solution would be to promote manly things like hunting, paintball, football, pole-jousting, ect...

My 2 cents.

[Aussie1001]

i do not wish to get roused so this is speculation sort of anyway...
I do believe that one David Hicks was captured by the U.S troops, now he was in service with the taliban at the time of his capture and subsequent transport and detainment in Quantanamo Bay.
if this definition is studied it would seem that the taliban do actually fit into the convention as a) A militia or b) members of the armed forces party to the conflict.

(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.


this would subsequently mean that the treatment and facilities at Quantanamo bay are inadiquet for storing what in actual fact are POW's and not as some would deem them scum. (make no mistake i do condone or even remotly support what alkaida and all that other retards in the area get up to)

[evangilder]

You mean the same David Hicks that attended Al Qaeda training camps and pleaded guilty to providing material support to terrorists? The same David Hicks that changed his story about as often as he changed his underwear? I'm not buying that he would be classified as a POW, but an unlawful combatant.

[ccheese]

Originally Posted by DOUGRD

Charles, Do you remember back in the '50's and '60's judges did give some people "THE CHOICE". If I remember correctly the courts had certain guidelines as to who was eligible.

Doug: I can only recall one specific instance, and that was the twin
brothers that swiped a car. I do not remember reading of any other
instance.

I still don't think I would want to bunk with a petty thief or a hold-up
felon. Maybe that's the key word..."felon" Maybe anyone who commits a
felony would not be eligibile for the "program" ??

Charles

[evangilder]

Yeah, I think having felons serve is an invitation to trouble. I seem to remember that being asked when I went to the MEPS station; "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?".

[evangilder]

T4H, you are down to about 4 hours to provide your proof of US soldiers "lack of education and motivation" or apologize.

[ccheese]

Originally Posted by evangilder

Yeah, I think having felons serve is an invitation to trouble. I seem to remember that being asked when I went to the MEPS station; "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?".

Maybe "felon" is not the key word..... Isn't Grand Theft Auto a felony ?

Charles

[evangilder]

It varies from state to state, but in general, Grand Theft Auto is a felony based on a few factors. There are also classes of felonies, with the lower numbers being the most severe.