Kennedy JFK Assasination

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by ww1ace

Things I have understood from Files:
#1:Oswald was not involved
#2:There was a person at the Knoll(Files)
#3:The head wound was massive because Kennedy was hit by two bullets at the same time.
#4: Rosseli was a part of the CIA, but there was no mob or government hit.

Oswald as involved - as a patsy...

Johnny Rosseli was in the mob and worked for Sam Gincana. Sam Gincana and Carlos Marchello were being hounded by Bobbie Kennedy. Both of these guys may of helped the CIA during the 1950s.

Read Contract on America, it tell of the Mob involvement...

My belief the hit was done by a rouge CIA unit. Frank Sturgis and Howard Hunt (both Watergate Burglars) were part of it....

[FLYBOYJ]

Found this site, its got some great info for those of you who are into this...

JFK MURDER SOLVED

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Bustedwing

Well, there's probably no way we will ever learn who did it but we can be sure of who did not. There is no possible way the Warren report is accurate and LHO did it ! That leaves a conspiracy. Take the hollywood tripe out of the film and Stones movie probably comes as close to the truth as we will ever know.
And JFK was a major dickhead, his dad the bootlegger bought him his Presedency !

I knew Bill Decker and his Deputy Harry Koch personally and I know Don Byrd former Sheriff of Dallas very well. They were all in the middle of the investigation and the aftermath.

In their opinions LHO absolutely a) pulled a trigger and b.) hit Kennedy and probably John Connally. They were not certain that a second gunman was present - or not present... just that they never found evidence of a second shooter. There were people all around the Grassy Knoll in front of the caravan leading to Interstate 35 - no one positively heard a shot behind them as far as I can tell

Their questions focused on the first and fourth shots (Kennedy neck shot as described by Ms Connally, and the 'miss')

I could believe either theory but find it difficult to imagine that LHO could get four very well aimed shots off with that stupid Italian carbine- but even more difficult that sooooo many professional investigators in FBI and Dallas could be connected and buy in to a cover up, much less members of the Warren Commission - too many conflicting political agendas with nothing to gain?.

If mob, don't you think Bobby would have honed into that, if Right Wing conspiracy LBJ would have a field day with GW in 64 Election.. Ditto if Soviet or Cuban trail.

Too many stretches for me to accept on face value that there was a second shooter.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by drgondog

There were people all around the Grassy Knoll in front of the caravan leading to Interstate 35 - no one positively heard a shot behind them as far as I can tell.

The Newmans (and several dozen others) tried to testify that they heard shots at the grassy knoll (Mr. Newman was a former Marine and had his family "hit the ground as shots whizzed over their heads). Some of these folks were bullied, badgered, threatened and even murdered.

This is a very complicated subject but when you start looking at all the objective evidence there are too many loose ends to say LHO acted alone. Just the fact that he was a deserter, defected to the USSR, married a girl who's father was a KGB officer and then was allowed to return to the US with no prosecution (Especially during those cold war days) is mind boggling.

Carlos Marcello, Sam Giancana, Cuban Exiles, former CIA agents, and other mafia members who the Kennedys double crossed after their election all had the motives, means and will to kill JFK. The only reason why this has remained an enigma is because those who carried out the hit hated the man and have little remorse for what they did.

[Graeme]

I read this in 'The 20th Century' by David Wallechinsky;

"In fact, Kennedy conspiracies have become an industry unto themselves. A convention is held each year in Dallas to swap theories and sell gruesome memorabilia, such as Oswald's coroner's tag, Ruby's gun, and bootleg autopsy photos, and a magazine, the Grassy Knoll Gazette, exists as a clearinghouse for wild theories".

Surely not!?

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Graeme

I read this in 'The 20th Century' by David Wallechinsky;

"In fact, Kennedy conspiracies have become an industry unto themselves. A convention is held each year in Dallas to swap theories and sell gruesome memorabilia, such as Oswald's coroner's tag, Ruby's gun, and bootleg autopsy photos, and a magazine, the Grassy Knoll Gazette, exists as a clearinghouse for wild theories".

Surely not!?

While this shows the extent opportunist will go to so they can make a buck, it only brings discredit on those who want to find the truth about this subject. I've been to Daley Plaza a few times and its amazing some of the street merchants you'll see there.

Bottom line if one looks into this more the evidence is overwhelming that there was a consparicy.

[T4.H]

"No conspiracy"!!!!

Only one shooter! -> Oswald!

I think he was alone and he had no supporter (I'm only 99% sure in this fact).

Ruby: also alone, no conspiracy.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by T4.H

"No conspiracy"!!!!

Only one shooter! -> Oswald!

I think he was alone and he had no supporter (I'm only 99% sure in this fact).

Ruby: also alone, no conspiracy.

Explain this, and its only the tip of the iceberg....


"The Dallas police took a paraffin test on Oswald’s face and hands to try to establish that he had fired a weapon on November 22. The Chief of the Dallas Police, Jesse Curry, announced on November 23 that the result of the test “proves Oswald is the assassin.” The Director of the F.B.I. in the Dallas-Fort Worth area in charge of the investigation stated: “I have seen the paraffin test. The paraffin test proves that Oswald had nitrates and gunpowder on his hands and face. It proves he fired a rifle on November 22.” Not only does this unreliable test not prove any such thing, it was later discovered that the test on Oswald’s face was in fact negative, suggesting that it was unlikely he fired a rifle that day. Why was the result of the paraffin test altered before being announced by the authorities?"

Sixteen Questions on the Warren Report
People running up the grassy knoll after hearing shots....



AND...

"Carlos Marcello (Calogero Minacore) was born in Tunis, North Africa, on 6th February, 1910. Marcello emigrated to the United States and in 1929 was arrested for bank robbery by the police in New Orleans. These charges were later dropped but the following year he was convicted of assault and robbery and was sentenced to the State penitentiary for 9 years (served 5 years).

In 1938 Marcello was arrested and charged with the sale of more than 23 pounds of narcotics. Despite receiving another lengthy prison sentence and a $76,830 fine, Marcello served less than 10 months in prison. On his release from prison Marcello became associated with Frank Costello, the leader of the Mafia in New York.

By the late 1940's, Marcello had taken control of Louisiana's gambling network. He had also joined forces with Meyer Lansky in order to buy some of the most important gambling casinos in the New Orleans area. By this time Marcello was the undisputed leader of the Mafia in New Orleans. He was to hold this position for the next 30 years.

On 24th March, 1959, Marcello appeared before the Senate Committee investigating organized crime. Serving as chief counsel to the committee was Robert F. Kennedy; his brother, Senator John F. Kennedy, was a member of the committee. In response to committee questioning, Marcello again invoked the fifth amendment in refusing to answer any questions relating to his background, activities, and associates.

After becoming president John F. Kennedy appointed his brother, Robert Kennedy, as U.S. Attorney General. The two men worked closely together on a wide variety of issues including the attempt to tackle organized crime. In March 1961, the Attorney General took steps to have Marcello deported to Guatemala (the country Marcello had falsely listed as his birthplace). On 4th April, Marcello was arrested by the authorities and taken forcibly removed to Guatemala.

It did not take Marcello long to get back into the United States. Undercover informants reported that Marcello made several threats against John F. Kennedy. He told Edward Becker that a dog will continue to bite you if you cut off its tail. Whereas if you cut off the dog's head, it would cease to cause you trouble. Becker reported that Marcello "clearly stated that he was going to arrange to have President Kennedy murdered in some way." Marcello told another informant that he would need to take out "insurance" for the assassination by "setting up a nut to take the blame".
Just before Kennedy was assassinated on 22nd November, 1963, Jack Ruby made contact with Marcello, and another Mafia leader, Santos Trafficante, about a problem he was having with the American Guild of Variety Artists (AGVA). Ruby also visited New Orleans that summer. So also did the alleged assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald.

After the assassination of Kennedy the Federal Bureau of Investigation investigated Marcello. They came to the conclusion that they "did not believe Carlos Marcello was a significant organized crime figure" and that Marcello earned his living "as a tomato salesman and real estate investor." As a result of this investigation the Warren Commission concluded that there was no direct link between Ruby and Marcello."


The Warren Comission ignored much this information. As stated on the moon landing thread, why dismiss this information? What harm would come if this was at least investigated?

[T4.H]

Oh come on...

I have my opinion, you have your one.
And it is always senseless, to discuss against the majority in a conspiricy thread.

These were only informations from informants. Less or more no hard facts. Nothing like fingerprints on a weapon or so.
Marcello didn't like Kennedy.
And he said, he would like to kill him.
How many persons didn't like Kennedy at this time in your country?
To some friends, I said once, if I would meet Osama Bin Laden with a weapon in my hand, I would kill him.
If Osama will be killed from someone somewhere...
Will the commission start to dicuss, if I am the assassin?
Three person visit New Orlean.
Nice.
At the same time? Do they visit the places? How long did they stay in this Town? What was the reason to visit this town?

Three of the pilots of 9/11 were living in Hamburg (Germany), you perhaps know. I'm living in a town 200 km away S/W of Hamburg. A friend and his family is living in Hamburg, now 20 km north of this town. I visit him and his family several times. I was on a demonstration against the 2. Gulf war! (The Iran Irak war is the first one). Like another million germans.
Am I a member of 9/11?

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by T4.H

Oh come on...

I have my opinion, you have your one.
And it is always senseless, to discuss against the majority in a conspiricy thread.

These were only informations from informants. Less or more no hard facts. Nothing like fingerprints on a weapon or so.
Marcello didn't like Kennedy.
And he said, he would like to kill him.
How many persons didn't like Kennedy at this time in your country?
To some friends, I said once, if I would meet Osama Bin Laden with a weapon in my hand, I would kill him.
If Osama will be killed from someone somewhere...
Will the commission start to dicuss, if I am the assassin?
Three person visit New Orlean.
Nice.
At the same time? Do they visit the places? How long did they stay in this Town? What was the reason to visit this town?

You're pointing to generaliztions. There were and still are dozens of these coincidences that just needed to be investigated and those in power just choose to ignore them or discredit them and that alone shows me something. There is too much circumstantial evidence to dismiss this as "just a conspiracy."

Originally Posted by T4.H

Three of the pilots of 9/11 were living in Hamburg (Germany), you perhaps know. I'm living in a town 200 km away S/W of Hamburg. A friend and his family is living in Hamburg, now 20 km north of this town. I visit him and his family several times. I was on a demonstration against the 2. Gulf war! (The Iran Irak war is the first one). Like another million germans.
Am I a member of 9/11?

No - unless you ever flew with them, met with them for terrorist purposes, supplied them money, ect. The people who made the threats against Kennedy were hardened criminals and were not to be taken lightly. The people shown as participants in the assassination were involved in illegal and covert actions way before Nov. 22, 1963, and that's what makes them different from a protester as you portray yourself with regards to your example.

BTW I don't know if you read the full thread, I don't like any of the Kennedys, but I would like the truth to someday be revealed and no single bullet did what the warren Commission claims.

[T4.H]

Yes I'm generalizing.
Why?
Because it is always the same story.
If a famous person dies on a "interesting" way, you always have the "same" conspiracy discussions.

Just look on another story.
Death of Diana.
Fact:
The driver was drunken and has taken drugs.
Diana was sitting in a car together with a driver, who smells like a bourbon distillery.
I'm pretty sure, that she smelled this.
They didn't fasten there seat belts. Every else has to do it. Only the guard did it, he survived.
They tried to break the all time speed record in the middle of a town and espacially in a tunnel(joke!).
They slightly collide with a car. This car driver disappeared. Mysterious...
And than the rest of the story.
100 and more? conspiracy theories till now?

Assassin assault by the Fiat driver? Who was this guy? The guard is the assassin?
SAS?
They let her die on the way to the hospital?
etc.
I didn't belive in a conspiracy in this case.
And this case is also a little bit mysterios.
Another story, the "same" conspiracy discussions.

I belive, there was no conspiracy in the JFK assassination, only one crazy guy. You have another opinion.
I did not accept your oppinion. I accept, that you have a different oppinion.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by T4.H

Yes I'm generalizing.
Why?
Because it is always the same story.
If a famous person dies on a "interesting" way, you always have the "same" conspiracy discussions.

In this day and age - in 1963 there was little sensationalizing of celebrities as seen today. The evidence is more mechanical than passionate...

Originally Posted by T4.H

Just look on another story.
Death of Diana.
Fact:
The driver was drunken and has taken drugs.
Diana was sitting in a car together with a driver, who smells like a bourbon distillery.
I'm pretty sure, that she smelled this.
They didn't fasten there seat belts. Every else has to do it. Only the guard did it, he survived.
They tried to break the all time speed record in the middle of a town and espacially in a tunnel(joke!).
They slightly collide with a car. This car driver disappeared. Mysterious...
And than the rest of the story.
100 and more? conspiracy theories till now?

Assassin assault by the Fiat driver? Who was this guy? The guard is the assassin?
SAS?
They let her die on the way to the hospital?
etc.
I didn't belive in a conspiracy in this case.
And this case is also a little bit mysterios.
Another story, the "same" conspiracy discussions.

And none of that adds up, just loose here say and speculation. There is no mechanical evidence too ever support a conspiracy.

Originally Posted by T4.H

I belive, there was no conspiracy in the JFK assassination, only one crazy guy. You have another opinion.
I did not accept your oppinion. I accept, that you have a different oppinion.

And you are correct. The only thing I've done on this thread is present some questionable situations, the reader has to make their own opinions.

This is a very complicated subject and it took me a long time to accept that this was a conspiracy. All I ever ask is for anyone to look at some of the unexplained.

[Glider]

I cannot comment on the existance of a conspiracy theory or the potential for a second shooter. All I can say is that we had a programme on shooting about two years ago and it was proved that the shots could be fired in the time available and with the accuracy required.

They did this in the simplest way by getting a shot with the same rifle to shoot at a similar distance at a slowly moving target in the same time. The only difference was the presenter (a well known millitary historian) didn't miss with any of his shots.

[FLYBOYJ]

Originally Posted by Glider

I cannot comment on the existance of a conspiracy theory or the potential for a second shooter. All I can say is that we had a programme on shooting about two years ago and it was proved that the shots could be fired in the time available and with the accuracy required.

They did this in the simplest way by getting a shot with the same rifle to shoot at a similar distance at a slowly moving target in the same time. The only difference was the presenter (a well known millitary historian) didn't miss with any of his shots.

Several shooters have duplicated Oswald's alleged attack - it could be done.

[T4.H]

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

And none of that adds up, just loose here say and speculation. There is no mechanical evidence too ever support a conspiracy.

No hard facts? I think, this you mean with "mechanical evidence".
Where and who is the driver of the whithe Fiat? Why it was never found?
Why they needed more than one hour, to bring Diana with the rescue car into the hospital? Only something around 1 or two KM away? etc...
Most of these facts could be explained of course.

Most of the conspiracy facts could also be explaind for the JFK assassination.

But in both cases, many persons have there "own" conspiracy theory. And they belive in this! Of course, it is always more interesting (also financial) to belive in a conspiracy theory.

I have also my cases. They are different from your ones.
Olaf Palme assassination together with the submarine "problems" before in Sweden. You remember, "Wiskey on the rocks", after this the dozens of submarines sighted before the coast. The badly damaged submarine by a water mine, which stayed under water for 48 h, before it was repaired. etc. I'm pretty sure, the other submarines were no russian ones.

Belgium: Dutrux...

Kidnapping of Heinecken (Netherlands), the assassination of less or more all kidnappers till now.

The Lufthansa robbery...All thiefs were killed till now...who has now the money...