 | nice ride| OFF-Topic / Misc. Discuss nice ride in the Current forums; Good point there, Joe.... |
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11-21-2005, 09:41 AM
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#31 | | "Shooter"
Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Moorpark, CA
Posts: 12,713
Country:  | Good point there, Joe.
__________________  http://www.vg-photo.com Wherever their bones may lie, the courage of heroes is consecrated in the hearts and engraved in the history of the free. Lt Col Honner DSO MC, 39th Commander speaking of the dead from the battle of Kokoda. | 
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11-21-2005, 12:28 PM
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#32 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: UK
Posts: 3,542
Country:  | Some very worth while comments Joe and your mate Doug certainly has a valid point.
I feel if it is a Spitfire then its a Spitfire the design is 60 odd years old but even if it was built yesterday it would still be a Spitfire it may not be a second world war one and as you say some of the gubbins inside may have been up dated for obvious reasons, but I bet if an old vet got in one he would call it a Spitfire.
So although a modern re-build I would class them as genuine items it would only be a different plane to me if the basic shape and design had been altered. It is only a replica in as much as it is replicating the era it was originally designed and used in not the actual machine which is the really thing.
Now Ive written that it does look like I disagree with you D  I must have changed my mind.
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11-21-2005, 01:32 PM
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#33 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Praga Mater Urbium
Posts: 5,870
Country:  | It depends on two factors:
1) If you're talking about WW2 combat experince, there's probably none left.
2) But if you talk about the structure (the machine itself, as seen on airshows), then I believe they could be called with their real names (spitfire, Messerschmit, Lighting...)
The "details" like radio, etc... is of course another thing... | |
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11-21-2005, 03:56 PM
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#34 | | He who does not skim
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 8,957
Country:  | I agree with you Lee. If an aircraft, for example the Spitfire, is built this year to the same specifications as one built say 65 years ago, it's still a Spitfire. Minor alterations like the type of radio set or compass wouldn't change that, they'd simply be minor updates. The same could be said of a Lightning. I think a replica would be a machine that bore an external resemblance, but had serious alterations made to the specs such as power-plant, major structural and material changes, and those sorts of things. | |
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11-21-2005, 03:59 PM
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#35 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005 Location: Texas
Posts: 405
Country: | hey pbfoot, this is one nice airplane your shoeing on here.
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11-23-2005, 02:31 PM
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#36 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,767
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ "The people who designed and built WW2 fighters did not envision them lasting but a few hundred hours. It doesn't make me very confident flying those types of aircraft, no matter how good they are restored 60 years later." Comments?!? | Very good point. Kind of makes you wonder whether it really is safe or not. You know what though I would not trade the chance to fly in an old Spitfire, P-51D, Bf-109 or Fw-190 anyday. I would take my chances. 
__________________  US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-23-2005, 02:50 PM
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#37 | | World Traveler
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Royal Deeside/St Andrews, Scotland, UK
Posts: 11,544
Country:  | Quote: |
Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet Quote: |
Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ "The people who designed and built WW2 fighters did not envision them lasting but a few hundred hours. It doesn't make me very confident flying those types of aircraft, no matter how good they are restored 60 years later." Comments?!? | Very good point. Kind of makes you wonder whether it really is safe or not. You know what though I would not trade the chance to fly in an old Spitfire, P-51D, Bf-109 or Fw-190 anyday. I would take my chances. | So would I Alder. (As would most of us on here)
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11-23-2005, 04:51 PM
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#38 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,767
Country: | I am sure that is the case for most of us.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-25-2005, 11:22 PM
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#39 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,057
Country: | If you were to build a new Lightning that was truely just an update of the Lightning, such as improved materials and improved engines etc. etc. then, yes, it's a Lightning. But it's not going to be built for personal use! And it's not going to be any kind of original Lightning - so it's not going to be the Lightning I love that served from 1960-1988.
If you got an old Lightning that was built in the 1960s, and started changing everything on it ...then it's no longer a Lightning, even if it looks the same. The only way a Lightning that's been rebuilt stays a Lightning, is if you built it the same way, with only MINOR material changes solely for safety purposes and built it exactly the same. To keep it even more real, pay BAe to pull out the old drawings and have them rebuild it! Highly unlikely anyone could them to do that ...but still. And to be a REAL original it has to be old ...you wouldn't build a GT40 Mk.IV (1969) to the exact same specs and call it a GT40 Mk.IV 1969, would you? It's not built in 1969 - so you can't! A new Lightning would have to be a Lightning Mk.7...then it's not original.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004  To those in that club. | |
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11-26-2005, 05:06 AM
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#40 | | Master of Ewes
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 19,959
Country: | all the BBMF aircraft fly with totally original parts, nothing modern except modern radios but they still have the old radios installed anyway..........
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11-26-2005, 05:18 AM
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#41 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,767
Country: | Quote: |
Originally Posted by plan_D If you were to build a new Lightning that was truely just an update of the Lightning, such as improved materials and improved engines etc. etc. then, yes, it's a Lightning. But it's not going to be built for personal use! And it's not going to be any kind of original Lightning - so it's not going to be the Lightning I love that served from 1960-1988.
If you got an old Lightning that was built in the 1960s, and started changing everything on it ...then it's no longer a Lightning, even if it looks the same. The only way a Lightning that's been rebuilt stays a Lightning, is if you built it the same way, with only MINOR material changes solely for safety purposes and built it exactly the same. To keep it even more real, pay BAe to pull out the old drawings and have them rebuild it! Highly unlikely anyone could them to do that ...but still. And to be a REAL original it has to be old ...you wouldn't build a GT40 Mk.IV (1969) to the exact same specs and call it a GT40 Mk.IV 1969, would you? It's not built in 1969 - so you can't! A new Lightning would have to be a Lightning Mk.7...then it's not original. | I disagree. If you build a new Lightning and it has new avionix and engine and weapons systems it is still a Lightning just a different version. For example the F-14D had different engines than the F-14B. It had different avionix packages but it was still an F-14. Therefore the Lightning would still be a Lightning. Thats just the way I look at it.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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11-27-2005, 09:11 AM
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#42 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,057
Country: | That's what I said in the first paragraph and also in the last sentence. If it was a brand new Lightning with improved aspects but still had the basic principals of the Lightning - then it'd be a Lightning Mk.7 or something. It still wouldn't be an original 1960-1988 Lightning though.
__________________ "When you go home tomorrow, don't expect anyone to know what you have been through. Even if they did know, most people probably wouldn't care anyway. Some of you may get the medals you deserve, many more of you will not. But remember this, all of you are now members of the front-line club, and that is the most exclusive club in the world." - Lt. Col. Matthew Maer CO 1st Battalion, the Princess of Wale's Royal Regiment. Camp Abu Naji, Oct. 2004 To those in that club. | |
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11-27-2005, 12:21 PM
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#43 | | Der Crewchief
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ansbach, Germany
Posts: 29,767
Country: | I guess I misunderstood your post.
__________________ US Army Blackhawk Crewchief 2000-2006 Classic ww2aircraft.net quotes: fly boy said: "isn't that the first jet bomber? becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles" "wait what ok who made the b-2 crash come on people that messed up its a b-2" "ah yes the mistel those things are so annoying is games and in real life" | |
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12-14-2005, 02:21 PM
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#44 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NIAGARA
Posts: 4,582
Country: | i hope no else has posted this israeli f15 minus wing | |
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12-14-2005, 02:52 PM
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#45 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Praga Mater Urbium
Posts: 5,870
Country: | Wow, wonder that it could make it......... Do you have any related info? | |
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