PBS SHOW TO ARGUE ALLIES AS BAD AS NAZIS

[Haztoys]

They call it war for a reason ..Sad to say

And we know now that there was know milatary stuff in some citys ...But did they know then......................????????

I hate it when people here say this and that standing in this time and space of info 60+ years later of info...????.. Stand in 1940 and see what it looks like about the japanese americans and dersden... sorry it happened ..But you (we) have know clue what they could see from the point in there time ..they do what they feel is right with the info on hand even todays war are the same

[pbfoot]

Playing the devils advocate I qoute Churchill when he urged the Chief of Air Staff on Oct 20 40
"a wholehearted effort shall be made to cart a large number of bombs into Germany without prejudice to the accurate bombing of military targets"
and
Churchill to Portal on Dresden on 28 mar 45 "that it remains a serious query against the conduct of Allied bombing"
One poster stated that 90% of Germans were against Hitler that is revisionist history of the highest order i would suggest 90% were in favour up until the tide started to turn

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

One poster stated that 90% of Germans were against Hitler that is revisionist history of the highest order i would suggest 90% were in favour up until the tide started to turn

if they was against hitler, how does he became chanceler ? remember, hitler does not conquest the power by a coup d'etat, but from the legal republican meanings of the german law. the nazi party had the majority of the chairs in the parliament, the voters chosen hitler as they leader !

[seesul]

Originally Posted by JugBR

if they was against hitler, how does he became chanceler ? remember, hitler does not conquest the power by a coup d'etat, but from the legal republican meanings of the german law. the nazi party had the majority of the chairs in the parliament, the voters chosen hitler as they leader !

Don´t 4get the poor social situation in Germany after WW1 and in early 30´s. The reason why they voted for him was he promised and gave them a job in 30´s.
Another question is, how many Germans supported him and belived in him since the WW2 began...but who would tell it us today?...
And there was also Mr. Propaganda Goebels...and that was one of the strongest weapons Hitler had...

[JugBR]

Originally Posted by seesul

Don´t 4 get the poor social situation in Germany after WW1 and in early 30´s. The reason why they voted for him was he promised and gave them a job in 30´s.
Another question is, how many Germans supported him and belived in him since the WW2 began...but who would tell it us today?...
And there was also Mr. Propaganda Goebels...and that was one of the strongest weapons Hitler had...

i agree 100% with you mate, germany was humiliated by the terms of the armistice in 1918. also came the economic crisis, in part by the heavy dutys germany should assume after the great war.

we have also to recognize, besides the anti-jewish, anti-comunist, "anti-everyone-who-disagres-them", the nazi should re-build the german economy and industry. people supported hitler because they saw their country in the mud, after ww1 and then they saw the nazis as an solution since germanys already was hopless, the inflaton was 200%/month something like that, the allies doesnt care about the germans after the ww1, hitler does, for his own goals of course...

[seesul]

Originally Posted by JugBR

i agree 100% with you mate, germany was humiliated by the terms of the armistice in 1918. also came the economic crisis, in part by the heavy dutys germany should assume after the great war.

we have also to recognize, besides the anti-jewish, anti-comunist, "anti-everyone-who-disagres-them", the nazi should re-build the german economy and industry. people supported hitler because they saw their country in the mud, after ww1 and then they saw the nazis as an solution since germanys already was hopless, the inflaton was 200%/month something like that, the allies doesnt care about the germans after the ww1, hitler does, for his own goals of course...

btw, do you have Bullock´s book Hitler and Stalin? Great book, IMO the best one about those 2 animals...

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Soren

Well let's also remember that the "true" Nazis aware of all that Hitler & Himmler were up to numbered less than 15% of the entire German population. I find this fact particularly scary to think about, that so little could lure so many into such a pointless war.

Can't help but think a little about the Iraqi war when talking of this either, the governments putting so many good people in jeopardy to fight a war based on false information, and then there's the guantanamo camps.

I suppose we need to draw comparisons between Guantanamo and Belsen or Dachau or Auschwitz - hardly a difference I suppose?

And then the other comparison - how many civilians or combatants in civiliam clothing were simply shot out of hand or tortured before shot by the Germans - so Guantanamo and US fit that profile for you? Shooting un uniformed combatants or spies is still legal under Geneva convention as I recall but that isn't happening at Gitmo.

Let's not forget how Hitler came to power, he made the jews look like terrorists by setting fire to the Reichstag and then led a false investigation which concluded it to be jewish "terrorists" which were behind it, from which point on the German people saw jews pretty much the same way many westerners see islamists today.

I think westerners see islamists that are cheerfully killing each other in the name of Allah and see no distinction between innocent civilians and the object of their hatred (pick one - ex 'soviet' schoolchildren in Checnya, jews shopping in Tel Aviv, Sunni insurgents killing Shi'a kids on the street, most all ot them gleefully supporting killing US citizens anywhere, etc) - as terrorists.

I know too many Pakistani/Arab/Iranian (exiles) that I have enormous respect for, to lump them 'all together' - much more than some of the Left wing media types I see on the tube every day.

I also find it abit disturbing that no'one has found Osama yet.. But then again he might be buried in some of the caves our special forces went out shooting rockets into.

I suspect a.) he is alive, and b.) well protected in Nw Pakistan where only the Pakistani's have access.

I also suspect our Rules of Engagement have kept him alive.

[JugBR]

he is not dead, i also believe he is in pakistan, maybe, when the coalition invaded the afghanistan, he probably wasnt there anyway.

[Marcel]

Originally Posted by seesul

BUT NO WAR, NO WAR CRIMES,NO VICTIMS.
NO AGGRESSOR, NO WAR.
THE BIGGEST WAR CRIME IS THE WAR ITSELF

Amen to that!

[Marcel]

Originally Posted by Haztoys

They call it war for a reason ..Sad to say

And we know now that there was know milatary stuff in some citys ...But did they know then......................????????

I hate it when people here say this and that standing in this time and space of info 60+ years later of info...????.. Stand in 1940 and see what it looks like about the japanese americans and dersden... sorry it happened ..But you (we) have know clue what they could see from the point in there time ..they do what they feel is right with the info on hand even todays war are the same

You're right, but I believe one has to learn from mistakes made in the past. It's not a judgement, but an objective way of looking at it and learn from it. That's why we must not shut our eyes for the faults made by the Allies. It is not to blame the Allies, as I'm living in a formal occupied country, I'm grateful for their fight. But they were no saints.

[JugBR]

the war should have ever be the last rescue, you ever must try tho keep peace as long its possible.
but when you enter in the war, you have to focus your full strenght on that and dont concern about when it will finish.

looks like sun tzu !

[Soren]

Bill,

I didn't want to make a direct comparison, cause there are differences, but it's still abit concerning when things even slightly seems to mirror what happened during WW2.

As for Osama, well either he's dead or he's alive. To me there's a 50/50 chance. He might be living the sweet life in Pakistan or he might be buried somewhere in the caves our special forces blew to pieces some years back.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Soren

Bill,

I didn't want to make a direct comparison, cause there are differences, but it's still abit concerning when things even slightly seems to mirror what happened during WW2.

They do not even come close to comparing to what the Nazi's and the Japanese did in WW2 or even what Stalin and Mao did.

To say that they mirror it at all, is revising history and downplaying what the Nazis, Japanese, Mao and Stalin did.

Way to go!

[seesul]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

They do not even come close to comparing to what the Nazi's and the Japanese did in WW2 or even what Stalin and Mao did.

To say that they mirror it at all, is revising history and downplaying what the Nazis, Japanese, Mao and Stalin did.

Way to go!

YES!

[Marcel]

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

They do not even come close to comparing to what the Nazi's and the Japanese did in WW2 or even what Stalin and Mao did.

To say that they mirror it at all, is revising history and downplaying what the Nazis, Japanese, Mao and Stalin did.

Way to go!

I think what Soren means (and only means) is that somehow, by many the whole Muslim world is seen as all terrorists, while it's only a very small minority. And he sees a parallel with Hitler as he also took the nature of a small minority of Jews and used that to raise hatred against a whole people. For the rest it not similar.
While I find the comparison a little far fetched, I agree with his point.