VT gets hit by a loon

[Matt308]

Phew. SW, I'm really having a hard time with your logic flow. It's like you are speaking in incomplete sentences. Are you attempting to say that Man is an enigma because we impose morality and law to prevent/avoid killing, yet mete it out on a frequent basis?

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

I guess that's how it ends up sounding huh?

Well, humans are somewhat strange in that we kill each other more than most other species too, for many more reasons than animals can even think up in their simple minds.

A male lion has his hunting territory and will defend it from rivals, but once he has it he is pretty much content on it until he is driven off from old age by a younger lion.

Often human rulers are not content with enough territory just to sustain them, they would like more than simply having enough "Kings Deer" in their woods. They want a history, they want a goverment, they don't like encroaching neighbors. They are more afraid than the lion of being thrown out of power in their old age, they are also more willing to do something about it than the lion. So if you are a King, you make sure those neighbors are subdued and that your son will rule after you. And if you are a good President of America, you want your country's Democracy to survive and that the next transition of power is a peaceful one.

If a head Lion gets kicked out at least the other lions of his clan don't have to worry about a differant style of goverment or culture. It's more about if the new Top Lion will be nastier or nicer than the last one. Their own lives won't change much though.

So humans of a country go to war more than just out of pure survival like a animal or caveman.
They go to maintain their status, territory protection, and sometimes to advance their civilization. That's probably the bigger reason that more humans die, more than the hungry hunter defending his freshly shot deer from another hungry hunter and one ends up killing the other.

No humans do have more rules about domestic killing and clan killing than animals do. You don't kill your fellow citizens, or your family, you must get along. Animals will kill their children and their fellow members and they don't suffer any punishment.

But if it's a strange country or people, you will feel more right to fight and kill them for your beliefs, territory, position. Lions won't do this kind of organized warfare agains't each other. They may gang up on a rival gang of hyena's, but that's partly because of the differance of species.

One kind of organized warfare that comes to mind in the animal kingdom is Ants. They will attack other ants, and in massive numbers. Their battles are bloody and violent and are based on domination. The ants deliberately left their own fertile anthill to destroy and conquer another anthill. The other anthill is a power thats dangerous to them, but at the same time not really bothering them at the moment into starvation.

There is something almost human in that attitude, but the ant have a much more stupified kind of teamwork to kill other ants.

Anyway, I would say humans can be both more noble and more cruel in their reasons for killing each other than most animals.

But I suppose it's obvious and I'm just wasting words.

One more thing. Animals never give so much power to a head animal so that he can abuse it like humans do. There has never been a lion called Hitler, a big cat that dominated all the other lions. No, his own pride would never stand for it, they would not even follow him on a big crusade. And I doubt there has even been a lion that had the bright idea to call himself "Head of the Master Race."

Nah, too much trouble, the head lion thinks. Eat a Buffalo, take a nap and relax in the shade. Best way to live for a big cat like him.

So humans allow their leaders more power, and that's why they can organize more killing of enemies under one leader. And once they have a really powerful leader, they are also less willing to part with him, even if his rule brings suffering to themselves. So that could be one reason why Hitler had more ambition than even fictional Simba the Lion.

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

Ya I know, don't trus Wiki. But see about the Pavement Ant? They attack each other, their own species for territory. They have their own violent wars all the time, just like humans I guess, but with less logic.

Ant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ant cooperation and competition

Meat eater ants feeding on honey - social ants cooperate and collectively gather food.Not all ants have the same kind of societies. The Australian bulldog ants are among the biggest and most primitive of ants. The individual hunts alone, using its large eyes instead of its chemical senses to find prey. Like all ants they are social, but their social behavior is poorly developed compared to more advanced species. The Australian bulldog ant, Myrmecia pilosula, has only a single pair of chromosomes and males have just one chromosome as they are haploid.

Some species of ants are known for attacking and taking over the colonies of other ant species. Others are less expansionist but nonetheless just as aggressive; they attack colonies to steal eggs or larvae, which they either eat or raise as workers/slaves. Some ants, such as the Amazon ants, are incapable of feeding themselves, but must rely on captured worker ants to care for them. In some cases ant colonies may have other species of ants or termites within the same nest.[22]

The pavement ant is famous for its urge to increase its territory. In early spring, colonies attempt to conquer new areas and often attack the nearest enemy colony. These result in huge sidewalk battles, sometimes leaving thousands of ants dead. Because of their aggressive nature, they often invade and colonize seemingly impenetrable areas.

Ants identify kin and nestmates through their scents, a hydrocarbon-laced secretion that coats their exoskeletons. If an ant is separated from its original colony, it will eventually lose the colony scent. Any ant that enters a colony with a different scent than that of the colony will be attacked.[23] (See also Kin selection)

Here is a website about the differant kinds of fighting ants.
Ants Fighting - Ant Wars

Pavement Ant battle

[Matt308]

You are an interesting individual SW.

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

hmmm........

Thanks, I guess.

Maybe I need to pay more attention to that quote by Ronald Reagan.

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by Soundbreaker Welch?

hmmm........

Thanks, I guess.

Maybe I need to pay more attention to that quote by Ronald Reagan.

You're damn right you do

[Matt308]

Words to live by. And if you have ever met one. You would know the wisdom therein. I personally have yet to meet a Marine that bucks the logic.

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

You guys are both Marines, right?

[Matt308]

Only mkloby. I reside under his shoe.

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by Matt308

Only mkloby. I reside under his shoe.

Speaking of shoes, I need to polish my boots.

[Erich]

I think the thread has spent itself ......... there will be other horrible conflicts to discuss too soon-enough

[Matt308]

Originally Posted by Erich

I think the thread has spent itself .......

Not a chance, Erich. Pinch yourself. Your in America, remember?

Okay kiddies, here is a prime example of a good idea, poorly executed.

__________________________________________________ _________
Professor Fired Over Va. Tech Discussion

Apr 23 08:28 AM US/Eastern



BOSTON (AP) - An adjunct professor was fired after leading a classroom discussion about the Virginia Tech shootings in which he pointed a marker at some students and said "pow."
The five-minute demonstration at Emmanuel College on Wednesday, two days after a student killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus, included a discussion of gun control, whether to respond to violence with violence, and the public's "celebration of victimhood," said the professor, Nicholas Winset.

During the demonstration, Winset pretended to shoot some students. Then one student pretended to shoot Winset to illustrate his point that the gunman might have been stopped had another student or faculty member been armed.

"A classroom is supposed to be a place for academic exploration," Winset, who taught financial accounting, told the Boston Herald.

He said administrators had asked the faculty to engage students on the issue. But on Friday, he got a letter saying he was fired and ordering him to stay off campus.

Winset, 37, argued that the Catholic liberal arts school was stifling free discussion by firing him, and he said the move would have a "chilling effect" on open debate. He posted an 18-minute video on the online site YouTube defending his action.

The college issued a statement saying: "Emmanuel College has clear standards of classroom and campus conduct, and does not in any way condone the use of discriminatory or obscene language."

Student Junny Lee, 19, told The Boston Globe that most students didn't appear to find Winset's demonstration offensive.