Who made the best Subs in WW2

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Glider

You have to feel for the German crews.

Just watch Das Boot and that gives you a feeling right there. Best damn submarine movie in my opinion also.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by Glider

You have to feel for the German crews. In addition to the following the Ark Royal was attacked by U39 with three torpedo's all of which exploded prematurely. U39 was sunk in the counter attack and the crew saved.

On October 30th Kapitänleutnant Wilhelm Zahn of U-56 sighted in his area a truly juicy formation: the battleships Rodney, Nelson, the battle cruiser Hood and a dozen destroyers. Zahn eluded the destroyer screen and struck Nelson with a salvo of three. The impact pistol torpedoes clearly slammed against the ship's hull and…simply fell apart.

Have you ever read about the USN crews going through the same thing? I think one or two skippers actually asked to be relieved of duty due to the mental strain of setting up for a perfect shot, evading escorts, firing the torpedo's, then nothing happening

[Clave]

I'd have to feel sympathy and respect for all submarine crews, it's one place you would never get me to go...

[hartmann]

3) I would suggest that the best submarine at the start of the war 1939 was from from Poland. In 1939 Poland had the schnorkel and the AA guns fitted to their subs were twin 40mm Bofors. The Germans captured this technology and one of the suprises of the war is why the Germans didn't use the schnorkel earlier.

Really, those submarines were designed and built by the Nederlands, and the Schnorkel was proved by the Germans with a Dutch submarine captured (really a German designer suggested about the use of Schnorkel before the war, but this idea was not considered or used until they captured in the dockyard those Dutch submarines.
Best regards

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Glider

Syscom. Your torpedo's did stink at the start of the war, as indeed did the Germans, but you did identify the problems and fix them by 1943 when the numbers ramped up.

Yes I did hear about the USA torpedo problems.

[Glider]

In Chatham dockyard there is an A class submarine you can visit. The guides were all ex RN submariners from WW2 and they all agreed that Das Boot was a very accurate reflection of was at sea in any submarine.

The A class came out just after WW2 but had the same technology and is worth a visit.

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Originally Posted by Clave

I'd have to feel sympathy and respect for all submarine crews, it's one place you would never get me to go...

Agreed

[Salim]

Well I definately learned something new from this discussion. All the while I thought that Germany's torpedoes were pretty much adequate, but then I realized that they weren't exactly pristine. Japan had the best torpedoes of the war, as we all know, and their subs were quite good, but their submarine tactics and doctrine pretty much limited their application and that's why they had such limited sucess against Allied shipping. Of course, the Atlantic war did cause them trouble as well, since the Allies invested lavishly to make new weapons and tactics to put down the U-boat menace and it was used with deadly effect against Japanese submarines (they lost 75% of all subs during the war, similiar to the Kriegsmarine on the other ocean).

Anyway, getting back on topic. I checked out some of the statistics regarding the major U-boat types and American Gato and Balao class submarines and I've noted that there's one advantage that the German subs had over the American. German subs could dive deeper than any American sub of the era. Gato class submarines had a maximum depth of 90 meters (around 300 feet) and the superior Balao had a maximum depth of 120 meters (around 400 feet). Meanwhile, even the pathetic Type II U-boats could dive up to 150 meters and the far superior Type VII and IX could go down to depths of 220 meters (722 feet) and 230 meters (755 feet) respectively.

So I have a question for you all. Just how big a difference does maximum depth really make when considering how good a submarine is? I know that that alone isn't enough to make them the best, but it is a fact to consider, right?

Well, any responses?

[Nonskimmer]

Hmmm, I highly suspect the figures of 90m and 120m respectively for the Gato's and Balao's are maximum rated depths. They could certainly go deeper. German U-boats weren't crap by any means, but the type VII was designed as a coastal submarine, similar in that respect to the modern Type 209. German crews knew how to get the most out of their boats (and still do).

When it comes to depth in general, the deeper the better. However, this not only aids the submarine in the evasion process, but can actually hinder it's ability to detect surface threats as well. Even the best sonar equipment is effected to some extent by the ocean's thermal layers. It's a tricky balance. As the saying goes though: Run silent, run deep.

[Salim]

I guess you're right about the depth making it harder for sonar to detect surface threats, but if I'm not mistaken, many subs during the war didn't have sonar (at least, not during the first half). All subs had some kind of hydrophone equipment but I'm not sure whether or not the depth of the sub could affect it.

Of course I do agree that running silent would be as important, if not more so, than being deep. Since no matter how deep you are, if you're making a lot of noise, they can still find you and depth charge you to kingdom come!

[Twitch]

When U-boats coud basically dive to a depth about double or more of any other sub in the world it's pretty much case closed.

[Salim]

Case closed as in what? They're totally better?

[Twitch]

Yeah they're totally better! Which sub would YOU want to be on when a squadron of pissed off destroyers start sounding and lobbing depth charges- one that could dive to 3-400 feet or 900 feet?

[Salim]

You make a very convincing arguement!

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I truely do believe that Germany was leading the world in U-Boot technology. Just check out the Type XXI. They were superior to anything that could go underwater, however they were too little too late as were most innovative Germany designs of anything.