Best Aircraft in many different roles

[the lancaster kicks ass]

or the Mc.200??

[Lightning Guy]

I think CC's New Year's Resolution should be to pick a a favorite aircraft and stick to it!

[wmaxt]

Originally Posted by evangilder

Wmaxt, Yes, the L did iron out alot of problems, but while Lindbergh's methods are well known to save fuel, it was a lot harder on the engines. The Allisons were pretty temperamental, and they still are. Ask anyone who has worked on a P-38. Unfortunately, the one in our museum had an engine rebuild from someone who had problems with other rebuilds and so it has not been off the ground in 3 years.

Sadly, there has been a long custody battle brewing over that P-38 and some other aircraft and because of that it has been sitting idle. The worst part is that, long story short, we lost the custody battle and it is returning to where it came from. So around mid-January, we will be losing our Lightning. It may be back, hopefully, but it will be awhile.

Gemhorse, I agree that he Mossie and the Lightning both had their strengths and both did more than their original designs called for. They both were great.

With the Corsair and P-51/F-51, I personally would choose the Corsair for ground support. Radial engines are way more resilient. I gave a presentation on the P-47 last weekend and there was a WWII P-47 Crew Chief who spoke as well. He said that there were many stories of P-47s coming back with up to 5 (yes FIVE) jugs (piston and cylinder) completely shot off! Yet they still made it home. Water cooled engines are way too susceptible to ground fire. One .303 in the radiator or coolant line, and you have maybe 20 minutes before you are done.

An interesting story I read many years ago about a fateful mission over Germany in a P-51 straffing an airfield and as usual got hit in the cooling system. He wanted some altitude to jump and thought that if he pumped the primer the raw fuel might keep the engine cool enought to let him climb to several thousand feet. The engine kept going so he turned it towards home - he actuly nursed it all the way back, some 400 mi, and both gloves were worn through but he made it!

The engines in the 40s were all more maintenance intensive than todays. The Merlins required a set of cams every 40-50 hrs of run time. In attack missions the radials had a lot going for them.

[evangilder]

The radials are the way to go if you going to do ground attack. They are way more durable.

The Merlines did have their issues, but they were better than the Allisons. Look at the Mustang with the Merlin versus with the Allison, way better with the Merlin.

Pumping raw fuel on a hot engine is not something that I would think is the wisest move. He got lucky. If he had gotten hit with a tracer just after priming, he'd light up like a Zero. I know combat has extraorinary circumstances and primimg versus capture was probably what came to mind. But I gotta be honest, the thought of that scares the bejeezus out of me!

[Lightning Guy]

The Allison only had trouble in the ETO and only at extreme altitude. Note that they did just fine in the MTO, SWPA, CBI, Aleutians, Russia, and everywhere else.

[Gemhorse]

I've alway's been fascinated by the Mosquito, dunno why, just love it's look and all it embodies as an aircraft of that time and the marvel of it's wooden construction...I am a member of an Aeronautical Society that are restoring the remains of two of our Mossies, from back in the 1940's & 50's, one is a combat-veteran of RAF 487 [NZ] Sqn.; and they are being restored to make one static display....One hopes it could be built to fly again one day, perhaps.....the work others are doing worldwide are of great interest to me, and many others I guess, there's quite a following surrounding Mosquito Restoration......I have no consumate mechanical or electrical skills but thoroughly support & endorse the crafts, my skills lie more in Art, Advertising and Design that can be useful to the overall Cause....
I've read alot about the Merlin, Griffon, Allison and some of the Radials, but recently read a book called ''The Whole Nine Yards'' by John King, the name of the book refers to the length of .50 ammo a P-40's guns take, and it's about the finding by NZ'er Charles Darby, of a P-40 up in PNG that he got to NZ and that eventually got restored as ''Currawong, of G-AC' of 75 RAAF Sqn. There is a good review of the Allison in the book, and also reference sources for more detailed data that been written....If anyone's interested, I can get the ISBN No., but P-40 restoration and the use of the Allison today is really growing, they're being used in Russian fighter restorations even....It's awesome the restorations that are being done now, a P-39 I saw recently was so 'mint,' as to seem fresh off the War-time assembly line......
All these engines from the War have their own fascinating aspects......

May I wish you ALL a very Merry Xmas and a safe and Happy New Year...

[the lancaster kicks ass]

the phrase "the whole nine yards" originates from WWI when we brits used machine gun belts that were 9 yards long, we would say "give them the whole 9 yards" meaning use all your ammo on them...............

[Nonskimmer]

Interesting! I never knew that.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

that's one hell of allot of ammo though..............

[wmaxt]

Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass

the phrase "the whole nine yards" originates from WWI when we brits used machine gun belts that were 9 yards long, we would say "give them the whole 9 yards" meaning use all your ammo on them...............

I heard the same thing but for the B-17s.

[wmaxt]

Originally Posted by evangilder

The radials are the way to go if you going to do ground attack. They are way more durable.

The Merlines did have their issues, but they were better than the Allisons. Look at the Mustang with the Merlin versus with the Allison, way better with the Merlin.

Pumping raw fuel on a hot engine is not something that I would think is the wisest move. He got lucky. If he had gotten hit with a tracer just after priming, he'd light up like a Zero. I know combat has extraorinary circumstances and primimg versus capture was probably what came to mind. But I gotta be honest, the thought of that scares the bejeezus out of me!

The Allisons in most aplications had a single stage supercharger that could not pull the air that the two stage two speed supercharger of the Merlin.

The Allisons in the P-38L were pulling 1,425 in METo and 1,750 in WEP and continued to produce those numbers past 30,000ft. The Merlin was pulling 1,650hp up to about 25,000 and was down to about 1,400hp by 30,000. The exact numbers can be found at the following web page: P-38(C.C.Jordon).

The Turbo-chargers are better at supplying consistent air flow over a wider range of altitudes.

There is no more danger of fire when adding primer fuel into the intake manifold - it just richens the mixture and the extra fuel keeps the Cylinder head temps down helping the situation out, but yes he was VERY lucky.

[Lightning Guy]

I heard that the "whole nine-yards" thing was for a WWII fighter. I had assummed a .50cal belt and estimated a nine yard belt to be about 300 rounds (very rough estimation). Based off of that I guess the F4F Wildcat.

[plan_D]

If he's right, I couldn't be more impressed.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

who now??

and think about it, if you're the pilot of a single engined fighter with 6 belts of ammo, you're not gonna say "i'm gonna give 'em the whole 9 yeards" mostly because you wouldn't use all your ammo in one go, i think my explanation makes much more sence.....................

[Nonskimmer]

Well regardless of what plane was originally involved, if any, I still find it interesting.
I just never really thought about where the saying came from.