Best Aircraft in many different roles

the lancaster kicks ass · 01-02-2005, 01:12 PM

the mossie was just as much a fighter as a bomber, and the mossie could and did operate in more roles..................

wmaxt · 01-02-2005, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass

the mossie was just as much a fighter as a bomber, and the mossie could and did operate in more roles..................

Says you!

the lancaster kicks ass · 01-02-2005, 01:26 PM

well all you have to do is lok at the list i posted................

Archangel · 01-02-2005, 02:01 PM

I really think the best allaround plane of WW2 is the IL-2
i mean, its is/was a quite good heavy fighter, it was used as bomber, as nightfighter as recon's and this plane was quite hard to get down

the big concurrent is the haviland mosquito (i think u call it "mossie", correct me if im wrong

) le me say, i think they are even. on all different roles there were planes who were better as them, but this are the best alaround planes (the mosquito was much faster, and the IL-2 was harder to bring down (but 4 this, it was much heavier) )

Gemhorse · 01-02-2005, 08:27 PM

Hmmm, the Il-2 was renowned for it's ground-attack & tank-busting roles, and as you say, was a 'heavy-fighter'.....
The Russians had some others that perhaps came abit closer to this forum, a rare one that was probably closer to the Westland Whirlwind and would've been known as the MiG-5 if it had gone into serious production, a single-seat, twin-engined aircraft of wooden construction...Mikoyan & Gurevich initially called it the DIS...Russian abbreviation for 'twin-engined escort fighter', it was first flown in 1941 and was also capable of torpedo and ground-attack duties...Powered initially by two 1,400 hp Mikulin AM-37 12 cyl. Vee liqid-cooled engines, it's armament comprised one 37mm cannonmounted in the abbreviated forward fuselage with 2x 7.62mm ShKAS machine-guns anda further four in the wing centre-section... Loaded weight was 17,770 lbs. and a max speed of 379mph and a range of 1,417 mls., an ability to climb to 16,400 ft in 5min 30 secs and a ceiling of 35,760 ft....They later tried it with 2x 1,700 hp Shvetsov ASh-82F radials, and changed the armament to include twin 23mm VYa cannons and two 12.7mm BS mgs, but they ended-up not going into major production....

Yugoslav designer Sima Milutinovic initiated a design in 1937 for a wooden constructed two-seat light bomber with 500hp Walter Sagitta I-SR 12 cyl. air-cooled engines with 20mm cannon and FN 8mm mgs...Called the Rogozarski R-313, it has surprisingly good characteristics, and was in line for engine upgrade to Merlins or DB 601's, taking a defensive part in the early German Invasion of Russia, but no firm decisions were made, and it drifted into obscurity.....

Both these aircraft had tail assemblies like the Bf-110, but of note was their trying to create wooden aircraft of ply-type construction as the DH Mosquito became....

The Pe-2 and Tu-2 both complemented the great work done by the Il-2 during the Campaign, and have heard the Pe-2 referred to as the Russian 'Mosquito' somewhere........

Lightning Guy · 01-03-2005, 12:03 AM

The IL-2 doesn't come anywhere close to either of these two aircraft.

472mph for a Whirlwind!?! Where on earth did you dig up that figure? Using one of the worst engines RR ever developed there is simply no way the Whirlwind could match the P-38. Total number of Whirlwinds produced was around 100, or roughly 1% of the P-38s produced. Also, the Whirlwind was strictly a low-level aircraft with a critical alituted of 15,000ft or so.

The Mossie was nowhere near the fighter the P-38 was. Simply look at the numbers and types of missions it flew. Where were the Mossies flying fighter sweeps? or CAPs? or daylight escorts? or intercepts? The Mossies rarely (if ever) flew true fighter missions.

(G/C) Lionel Mandrake · 01-03-2005, 07:36 AM

Lightning Guy wrote:

Quote:

The Mossie was nowhere near the fighter the P-38 was.

You really are starting to bat on a dodgy wicket now you know. The Mosquito was designed to get to A to B and back to A in the quickest and safest manor....It did that job rather well thank you.

I'm not here to mock American aircraft ok, but to say the P-38 is the "best all round aircraft" is plane crazy, excuse the pun.

From it's inception, the Mosquito was a wonderful aircraft. You can't say this about the P-38 can you? That old adage "If it looks right, it will fly right", stands true for the 'Mossie', but the P-38??

I know the P-38 is very manoeuvrable, i've seen one at a flying display, i can assure you i stood up and took notice, i did actually say "Wow" to oneself...The beauty of a Mosquito is, if it got in to trouble the pilot could say to himself "that's enough Hun, i'm off home" and open up the taps...It's true the later Mks of German aircraft 'on paper' were just as fast, or even faster, but the 'Mossie' was still hard to catch...Remember that other adage "Don't be scared to fly away" blah, blah.

I say the the P-38 was a poor aircraft in the ETO. But there are more authoritative people then me who will same the same. Eg,

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Poor cockpit heating in the H and J model Lightnings made flying and fighting at altitudes that frequently approached 12,320 m (40,000 ft) nearly impossible. This was a fundamental design flaw that Kelly Johnson and his team never anticipated when they designed the airplane six years earlier. In his seminal work on the Allison V-1710 engine, Daniel Whitney analyzed in detail other factors that made the P-38 a disappointing airplane in combat over Western Europe.

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American war planners hoped the long-range capabilities of the P-38 Lightning could halt this deadly trend, but the very high and very cold environment peculiar to the European air war caused severe power plant and cockpit heating difficulties for the Lightning pilots. The long-range escort problem was not completely solved until the North American P-51 Mustang

These quote are from the definitive American aeronautical museum called the National Air and Space Museum, Smithsonian Institution.

It's a British trait to make do with the things you've got...You can't say this about the American's...They want the best!
The best...
Fighter bomber..P-47
Fighter..P-51 or Spit Mk14.
Photo-recon...Mosquito or Spit.
Anti ship....Beaufighter.
Nightfighter....Mosquito.
Light bomber...Mosquito.
The P-38 just doesn't hit the mark with me or the typical WW2 fighter fan...why is that i wonder?

The best all round aircraft is and can only be, the Mosquito!

plan_D · 01-03-2005, 07:40 AM

If you wanted to excuse the pun, why put plane...when it should have been plain?

Best Fighter? You mean dogfighter, it's Spitfire Mk. XIV...the most important PR plane was the Spitfire Mk. IX it took more shots than any other PR plane in Europe.

Gnomey · 01-03-2005, 07:56 AM

Best allround plane in my opinion is either the Mosquito or the JU-88 both did a multitude of different tasks from anti-ship and bombing to being night-fighters. Both good allround aircraft but for the Mosquito is the best.

(G/C) Lionel Mandrake · 01-03-2005, 08:30 AM

Quote:

If you wanted to excuse the pun, why put plane...when it should have been plain?

Maybe i'm fick..Or your slow on the up-take....Plane = Airplane...Get it?

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-03-2005, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by (G/C) Lionel Mandrake

Quote:

Nor could the Mossie match the P-38 in the vertical plane. In any sort of airfight, the P-38 held a huge advantage.

It's no shame to say " Don't be scared to run away, because you live to fight another day" On it's terms the mosquito could take on anything German, except prehaps the Me 262.

First of all the Me-262 was not tha maneuvarable anyhow. So ofcourse the mossie could out fly it. But as for the Germans not having anything I think you are wrong. The Fw-190 could outfly it and put a great fight for it. If it was a match for the Spitfire, P-38, and P-51 then it certainly was a match for the mossie. Dont take me wrong the mossie was a great plane but it certainly was not more versatile than the P-38. The Lightning could do everything the mossie could and outfly it. It would do circles around a mossie. It is not even a contest.

(G/C) Lionel Mandrake · 01-03-2005, 11:11 AM

DerAdlerIstGelandet wrote:

Quote:

The Fw-190 could outfly it and put a great fight for it. If it was a match for the Spitfire, P-38, and P-51 then it certainly was a match for the mossie.

Hey, butt out..This thread is not about the 190. Btw, i did say this, why you choose to ignore it?

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The beauty of a Mosquito is, if it got in to trouble the pilot could say to himself "that's enough Hun, i'm off home" and open up the taps...It's true the later Mks of German aircraft 'on paper' were just as fast, or even faster, but the 'Mossie' was still hard to catch

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It is not even a contest.

Why don't you stick to your army business, and i'll stick to my business

Iraq eh? My respect's to you, and stay safe chum.

plan_D · 01-03-2005, 11:16 AM

No, you're just 'fick'. When you say excuse the pun, you don't try to emphasis it by putting 'plane' instead of 'plain'. That's why you say EXCUSE, see?

The Mosquito was more versatile than the -38. As this will go on forever, I'm going to go with Gemhorses idea - Mosquito "Best of British" - P-38 "US Best" . There is nothing solid to prove to the other side that one is better than the other...

(G/C) Lionel Mandrake · 01-03-2005, 11:26 AM

Don't listen to him people, he's a northern git

Quote:

There is nothing solid to prove to the other side that one is better than the other...

Of course there is...Total missions flown, kill/loss ratio

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 01-03-2005, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by (G/C) Lionel Mandrake

Hey, butt out..This thread is not about the 190. Btw, i did say this, why you choose to ignore it?

Why don't you stick to your army business, and i'll stick to my business

Excuse me what is your problem. First of all the thread is about the best aircraft in many different roles and someone posted that the mossie could outfly anything that the Germans put in the air. I was simply posting that it was not true. Secondly mister I have 40 somethings posts here in this forum, what is my "Army Business" and what makes you think this your business?