Best Aircraft in many different roles

[cheddar cheese]

Bet the oldies love you

[the lancaster kicks ass]

what the f**k could the Mossie do for transport

6 passengers, what the f**k could the P-38 do for transport..........

The P-38 was NOT useless as a bomber

i class the ability to carry 3,200lbs the distance of 450 miles useless...............

against tanks it was damn good

you think that the 20mm and 4x.50cal +bombs of the P-38 could stand up to a 57mm and 4x.303 + rockets and bombs.............

[cheddar cheese]

The P-38 could also carry rockets. 20mm and 4 .50cals is better than the 4 .303s, cos an far as I know the 57mm cannon wasnt used very often

Look, I know the range with bombs of the P-38 was poor, but at doing the actual bombing it proved very accurate. The Droop Snoot P-38J was slightly modified to make a better bomber, il have a look around for some info on it.

Ok I didnt mean the transport like that, I was a little surprised that a 2 seat plane was being used for Transport role, however I doubt it was used often in that role cos Ive never read any accounts of them going on Transport missions.

And I reckon that a P-38 would comfortably have a Mossie in a dogfight any day, and give it a run for its money at night.

[MP-Willow]

So now this is a P-38 vs Mossie rant?

The Ju-88 woud be a Jack of all Trades master of non!

But i wil take the P-38. It did very well and was proven in the fare east were the Mossie had problums staying together, all that wood and water
The P-38 could turn inside the A6M because it flew combat a a faster speed! Under 250mph the A6M was ear purfect!
As much as I love the P-40 it is not a place here.

[kiwimac]

Junkers Ju 88 /188 / 388

Pour moi~

Kiwimac

[the lancaster kicks ass]

an far as I know the 57mm cannon wasnt used very often

it was used on the FB.XVIII, the second most numerous FB mark...............

but at doing the actual bombing it proved very accurate

any fighter bombing at low level will be accurate, as long as the pilot knows wht he's doing.............

I doubt it was used often in that role cos Ive never read any accounts of them going on Transport missions.

but would you really expect to??

[cheddar cheese]

Originally Posted by kiwimac

Junkers Ju 88 /188 / 388

Pour moi~

Kiwimac

No 288?

I like the 488, 4 engines

[GermansRGeniuses]

Originally Posted by the lancaster kicks ass

it was used on the FB.XVIII, the second most numerous FB mark..............

It was dropped quickly, too much recoil, and rockets were more suited to the job; only 33 Mossies were equipped with the Molin 57mm...

[BombTaxi]

Hi all!

My vote on this would be the Ju88. It was deployed in an extraordinary range of roles, yet never became obsolecent like the Bf110. Furthermore, it was well-proven in each role:as a bomber from 1939 onwards, as a nightfighter, it saw service almost nightly from its introduction in 1944, and as an anti-shipping a/c, it served well throught the war, on all fronts.

On the other hand, the Mossie NF only entered service after the worst German night raids were over, and so was never proven as thouroughly as the 88. As GrG mentioned, the big-gun anti-shipping version operated in only small numbers. The only roles the Mossie was fully proven in were light bomber and recon machine. So while it can be argued that it was a better aircraft than the 88, it doesnt have such an extensive combat record behind it.

As for the P38, it really was too limited in its deployment. It was used more-or-less exclusively fas a fighter-bomber or photo recon machine. It never served as a bomber, tank-buster or night-fighter, making it hard to put in the same league as the Mossie or Ju88.

Just my 0.02

[Tony Williams]

The Mossie was used as a transport - they were sent to collect much-needed ball bearings from Sweden, which involved flying through German-controlled airspace, so speed and stealth were essential.

There was nothing wrong with the 'Tsetse' (the FB Mk.XVIII armed with the 57mm Molins gun). It worked exceptionally well. The problem was that it was designed for the anti-tank role but the RAF changed their mind about the requirement (shame really, it was accurate and powerful) so it was given to Coastal Command who used it in anti-shipping generally and anti-sub in particular. The gun was far more accurate than RPs but the plane was less flexible (you couldn't switch the payload) so the use was limited. They did shoot down some aircraft with the big gun, though - including at least one Ju 88! You can read about the Tsetse and see photos at: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Molins.htm

You are right that the one argument in the Ju 88's favour is that it was in use throughout the War, while the Mossie only came in a bit later (but still before the USA did!). However, in every respect the Mossie could do what the Ju 88 could do, only better (the possible exception being torpedo dropping - the Mossie was never considered for that AFAIK).

Don't get me wrong - I like the Ju 88, it was IMO one of Germany's best aircraft and would certainly be on my top ten list of WW2's best planes. But it was very much 'jack of all trades, master of none'. And it was obsolescent by the end of the war (see Ju 188, also being replaced in some roles e.g. night fighter), while the Mossie remained the cream of the crop for years afterwards.

The Mossie came in four main versions:

1. P.R. - almost uncatchable, and the wooden construction made it hard to pick up on radar (one of the first stealth planes!). Also had a very long range.

2. Night-fighter; the best in the war (only the He 219 compared, and that came in very late and was very specialised). It actually operated as an escort fighter to the Bomber Command attacks, its role being to pick off the German night-fighters - which it did very well.

3. Bomber: it suffered only one-tenth of the loss rate of the Lancaster, and in winter the plane was so fast it was capable of two trips to Berlin in one night. Later versions could carry one single 4,000 lb bomb.

4. Fighter-bomber (with 4x20mm and 4x.303 in a solid nose, plus rockets and bombs): highyl effective and widely used in the ground attack and anti-shipping role. The Tsetse was a version of this.

Then there were the special roles, e.g. the bomber used as a transport etc.

The Mossie would get my vote as the best all-round aircraft of the war, by a comfortable margin. The Ju 88 was very good - the Mossie was brilliant.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

[cheddar cheese]

Originally Posted by BombTaxi

Hi all!

My vote on this would be the Ju88. It was deployed in an extraordinary range of roles, yet never became obsolecent like the Bf110. Furthermore, it was well-proven in each role:as a bomber from 1939 onwards, as a nightfighter, it saw service almost nightly from its introduction in 1944, and as an anti-shipping a/c, it served well throught the war, on all fronts.

On the other hand, the Mossie NF only entered service after the worst German night raids were over, and so was never proven as thouroughly as the 88. As GrG mentioned, the big-gun anti-shipping version operated in only small numbers. The only roles the Mossie was fully proven in were light bomber and recon machine. So while it can be argued that it was a better aircraft than the 88, it doesnt have such an extensive combat record behind it.

As for the P38, it really was too limited in its deployment. It was used more-or-less exclusively fas a fighter-bomber or photo recon machine. It never served as a bomber, tank-buster or night-fighter, making it hard to put in the same league as the Mossie or Ju88.

Just my 0.02

The P-38 was used as a bomber - there was a special "Droop Snoot" version used specifically for this. It would carry maximum payload whilst being escorted by Regular P-38J's/L's carry smaller bombs. It proved very effective.
It also did see service as a nightfighter - albeit very briefly. About 60 or so were deployed in the role in the dying days of the war and I think scored a few kills.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

On the other hand, the Mossie NF only entered service after the worst German night raids were over, and so was never proven as thouroughly as the 88. As GrG mentioned, the big-gun anti-shipping version operated in only small numbers. and recon machine. So while it can be argued that it was a better aircraft than the 88, it doesnt have such an extensive combat record behind it.

The mossie was the allie's most extensively used NF, it flew escort for our night bombers over germany and proved very effective.........

The only roles the Mossie was fully proven in were light bomber

i'd class it as a fast light-medium, and it was extremely effective in this role, so fast nothing could intercept it...............

[cheddar cheese]

When fully laden I dont think the Mossie would be going its maximum speed, And I think FW-190's and Bf-109's were more than capable of intercepting it.

[Tony Williams]

Originally Posted by cheddar cheese

When fully laden I dont think the Mossie would be going its maximum speed, And I think FW-190's and Bf-109's were more than capable of intercepting it.

But in its strategic role it bombed by night, so it mainly had the German night-fighters to worry about, and it could leave those behind with ease until the He 219 arrived - and there were never very many of those.

In daylight yes, it could be caught by fighters going flat-out but it was still a very difficult target. If the fighters were too far away when they saw it then they would probably fail to catch it before running out of fuel! They had to be in just the right position to make an interception, and it was difficult to achieve that, particularly since in daylight attacks the Mossie tended to attack at low level, so it was hard for the Luftwaffe fighter control stations to pick up and direct fighters to.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

[cheddar cheese]

Heres yet another point up for the P-38 lanc - Each individual model of the Lightning was more versatile than each individual model of the Mosquito.