Best Bomber of WW2 (continued)

[mosquitoman]

Thanks, I'm just used to metric

[DaveB.inVa]

Heres a picture of a Tiger Force Lancaster with a 1500 gallon tank faired in behind the cockpit.

[cheddar cheese]

Nice pic

[Nonskimmer]

Interesting.

[Gemhorse]

Thanks Dave, for the website on the Republic Rainbow....I've just a small article on it in a book, but it's specs greatly aroused me, as also it's nice sleek lines....it did have real potential, even as a light/medium bomber too, perhaps, especially indicative of some of the great ideas going on the US Aircraft industry.....just a shame they took so long to produce.....

As to the B-29's in N.Ireland.....In Aug. 1943, they had the Quadrant Conference in Quebec, where Arnold submitted his 'Air Plan for the Defeat of Japan'...- This document contained the first reference in strategic policy for the B-29. - Up to that time a rather vague proposal for committing the new bombers to Europe had existed, and it was envisaged that 12 Groups would be stationed in N.Ireland, and 12 more would be stationed near Cairo, in Egypt....- Arnold's plan though, was much more specific, proposing the deployment of the 58th Bombardment Wing [Very Heavy], newly activated under Wolfe's command, organised to contain 4 Groups of B-29's, to the CBI by years end.... Only one B-29 went to the UK, as mentioned, on the way to the CBI, to confuse the Axis Intelligence as to the actual theatre of operations.....

In regard to Bomber Command Mosquitos;.... RAF 139 Sqn. wasn't actually a Pathfinder Sqn. but due to 5 Group's [Cochran] depletion of some of the Pathfinder Force's Sqn.'s, they did the target-marking for the Pathfinders Mosquito 'Light Night Strike Force', as they were fitted and trained with H2S....Alot of folk thought they were just a 'nuisance-raiders', but with about a 100 Mossies each carrying 4000 lb 'cookies', their average raid on Berlin dropped about 400,000 lbs on the German Capital. After the War, it was discovered that Berliners regarded these attacks as anything but 'nuisance raids', realising also that it wasn't 'Main Force' either, but still nonetheless, genuine heavy raids.....

AVM Don Bennett, the Commander of Pathfinder Force commented in his book....'' The experts on the Air Staff who turned down the Mosquito as a type, in the early days, might be interested in the argument which subsequently became current, to the effect that one Mosquito was worth 7 Lancasters....For those mathematically-minded, here is the exercise :...... A Mosquito carried a little over half the bomb load of a Lancaster to Berlin. It's casualty rate was about 1/10th of that of a Lancaster. It's cost was 1/3rd of the Lancaster, and it carried two people in it's crew instead of seven....'' Bennett went on to say it's a little hard to get an exact mathematical result from those figures, but it was quite clear that in value for War effort, it was certainly well in favour of the Mosquito, compared with ANY other aircraft ever produced in the then history of flying......And the still sobering thought, that ALL Bomber Command and No.1409 Meteorlogical Flight Mosquitos were totally UNARMED.....At the late stages of the War, the Met. Flights were often intercepted by Me-262's, that could always out-pace them, but never out-manoevre them......there was nearly always a Met. Flight in the air, 24 hours, around the clock, keeping weather updated for the bombers.....brave, consistent, reliable men........

[Chiron]

"the effect that one Mosquito was worth 7 Lancasters....For those mathematically-minded, here is the exercise :...... A Mosquito carried a little over half the bomb load of a Lancaster to Berlin. It's casualty rate was about 1/10th of that of a Lancaster. It's cost was 1/3rd of the Lancaster, and it carried two people in it's crew instead of seven....'' Bennett went on to say it's a little hard to get an exact mathematical result"

ya, I wonder if a pack of Lancasters are more effective than a group of Mosquitos. I meant it is more important to have your bombs to drop on precise destination than relying on chance and on quantities of bombs. Mosquito has the modern sense of precise bombing and character of today's bomber as fast and lethal.

[the lancaster kicks ass]

I wonder if a pack of Lancasters are more effective than a group of Mosquitos

depends what you mean by "effective" for carpet bombing the mossies were great for target marking, but the lanc will always deliver the greater punch, for precision raids the mossie will obviously be the first choise, unless something heavier was needed (operation chastise for example) in which case the lanc would always be able to step up to the cause..........

[Chiron]

so, what planes were responsible for escorting Lancaster's bombing mission to Berlin? and was there any regular Monsquito esxorting team in war?
I know P-51 was later reponsible for the safeguarding the bombers as a result of request from British Air Force, but why didnt British considered to assign Mosquitos to do that task, insead of P-51?????

[mosquitoman]

Everybody wanted mosquitos so there just weren't enough to go around, Coastal Command, Bomber Command, Fighter Command and Recce squadrons had mossies

[Gemhorse]

Essentially Chiron, the Mosquito and Lancaster worked 'hand-in-glove' in Bomber Command, the Mosquitos did PR/ Met. work, the weather-forecasting prior to night raids, they did the Pathfinding and Target-marking, and their Best Role was as the Nightfighter's Nightfighter...they were superb at that.....the Light Night Strike Force [LNSF] Mosquitos flew in groups to both either 'select' targets, or created 'spoof' or dummy attacks, to draw the German Nightfighters off the Main Force of Bomber Command.....

They were very hardy for a wooden aircraft, and fast and manoevrable, and became essential to all the work the Lancasters, Halifaxes, Stirlings and Wellingtons did, of Bomber Command....

[Chiron]

can someone tells me how effective were those numerious air guns on Lancaster or the B-17???? Since there were so many bombers destroyed from enemy's fighters in each mission, it seemed those defenses were uselsess. Instead of keep, why didnt they reduce the numbers of guns and increase the speed of the plane.

[trackend]

I have to agree with Chiron on the point about bomber air to air fire power a machine gun is not a very accurate device it uses weight of shot and rate of fire for effect add this too an unstable gun platform + closing speed of target + size of target + limited target acquisition time it becomes a deterrent weapon rather than highly effective. Even fighters had as many guns piled into them as could be fitted because target acquisition time was short so ordinance impact had to be hard and effective with a limited on target period. The onset of base to target escort aircraft being able to match enemy fighter speeds and maneuverability the target acquisition time increased, thus bomber losses reduced from fighter attack however having said that flak remained the major problem it always had been.
Close formation cross cover wings had some effect but every fighter pilot new the weak points of every model of aircraft or formation be it Lanc's, B17's,etc

[the lancaster kicks ass]

but you have to remember the british didn't rely on defensive armourment as much as the yanks, we used evasive manouvers and electronic counter measures as well as the guns................

[cheddar cheese]

Electronic counter measures? EMP's?

[the lancaster kicks ass]

EMPs?? do you mean ECMs??

and yes, the british were world leaders in electronic warfare, we were jamming their signals all over the place, sending them off in all different directions, radars, the lot............