Best Piston Engined Fighter Ever

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I sure as hell dont. I also dont see anyone here who does except for maybe the guy who thinks the Corsair is the best because it shot down a Mig.

[JoeB]

I sure as hell dont. I also dont see anyone here who does except for maybe the guy who thinks the Corsair is the best because it shot down a Mig.

I didn't say you personally did, I don't even know who you are But there's quite a bit more than that one guy. Just two post ago somebody again mentioned A-1's claimed 2 MiG-17's in SEA, didn't say A-1's claimed 2 MiG-17's and MiG's downed 3 A-1's (it's almost never quoted that way).

The unusual incidents of Western prop success against swept wing MiG's are often repeated; the more numerous cases of MiG's downing prop planes (in incidents other than those in which props also claimed) are hardly ever mentioned. I don't think that's debateable, it's obvious. IMO that naturally cumulatively and demonstrably leads to a misimpression not limited to completely uninformed people. You may not be under that misimpression (which I didn't say you were) and your opinion may differ how many others are.

Joe

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I didn't say you personally did,

I was not talking to you either when I said that...

[FLYBOYJ]

Just two post ago somebody again mentioned A-1's claimed 2 MiG-17's in SEA, didn't say A-1's claimed 2 MiG-17's and MiG's downed 3 A-1's (it's almost never quoted that way).

I said it and its a fact, witnessed and confirmed...

21 June 1966 by LT Clinton B. Johnson and LTJG Charles W. Hartman III (shared victory) of VA-25, and on 9 October 1966 by LTJG William T. Patton of VA-176.

And the reason why we don't hear about it the other way around becuase in reality it is an oddity and I made that clear in my last post which describes WHY this happens in real terms rather than coming up with a reason to down play it.

[davparlr]

As stated in earlier posts, first and second generation turbine aircraft were notorious for having poor engine spool up times. The Mig-15 accelerated well but when slowed down to speeds under 350 mph still did not initially accelerate as well when compared to older recip aircraft.

I remember flying the T-37, which had centrifugal compressors similar to the Mig-15, and trying to accelerate after a stall series. I would run the throttles full forward and wait. First there was a low pitch whine with no increase in thrust, then the whine increased in pitch and after quite a time, the rpm would get into the 90% plus range, then I would start to feel a push in the back. Also, because acceleration was so slow, on final, the T-37 flew with speed brakes out and a gizmo out, called a thrust attenuator (small flaps that extended right behind the engine into the exhaust). This kept the RPMs high and if you had to go around, you pushed the throttles forward and closed the speed brake, which also closed the thrust attenuators. You got good response that way. Of course the T-38 was a whole different bird. When you plugged in the ABs on that plane it just leaped forward.

[FLYBOYJ]

I remember flying the T-37, which had centrifugal compressors similar to the Mig-15, and trying to accelerate after a stall series. I would run the throttles full forward and wait. First there was a low pitch whine with no increase in thrust, then the whine increased in pitch and after quite a time, the rpm would get into the 90% plus range, then I would start to feel a push in the back. Also, because acceleration was so slow, on final, the T-37 flew with speed brakes out and a gizmo out, called a thrust attenuator (small flaps that extended right behind the engine into the exhaust). This kept the RPMs high and if you had to go around, you pushed the throttles forward and closed the speed brake, which also closed the thrust attenuators. You got good response that way. Of course the T-38 was a whole different bird. When you plugged in the ABs on that plane it just leaped forward.

Great info Dave - I figured the "Tweet" would have some of those characteristics. The worse one I've flown in is a Fouga Magister, that thing is really gutless....

I think you could see how easy it is to get yourself into trouble in such aircraft. Put this it in a combat situation with a low time pilot and the stakes are doubled. One would probably have to analyze each combat scenario to see what each turbine aircraft pilot did to allow himself to get into a firing solution from a recip opponent but its funny as it happened in Vietnam the Mig-17 did have ABs

BTW - According to ACIG a YAK-9 downed an F-80 on July 19, 1950. It seems this is the only one for the Commies during Korea unless JoeB comes up with something else. As far as Communist jet fighters downing UN recip aircraft? (I know there are some who would like to see that) ACIG shows 6 for the Chinese and 9 for the Russians.

[davparlr]

Great info Dave - I figured the "Tweet" would have some of those characteristics. The worse one I've flown in is a Fouga Magister, that thing is really gutless....

I think you could see how easy it is to get yourself into trouble in such aircraft. Put this it in a combat situation with a low time pilot and the stakes are doubled. One would probably have to analyze each combat scenario to see what each turbine aircraft pilot did to allow himself to get into a firing solution from a recip opponent but its funny as it happened in Vietnam the Mig-17 did have ABs

BTW - According to ACIG a YAK-9 downed an F-80 on July 19, 1950. It seems this is the only one for the Commies during Korea unless JoeB comes up with something else. As far as Communist jet fighters downing UN recip aircraft? (I know there are some who would like to see that) ACIG shows 6 for the Chinese and 9 for the Russians.

If you kept the rpms up it flew fine. You have to fly it like you drive a small displacement turbo car, gotta keep the rpms up.

[mkloby]

It's kind of funny - these rare incidents also happened in Vietnam 15 years later where Skyraiders Shot down Mig-17s on 2 occasions. Rare? Yes. No big deal? Maybe, unless you're on the receiving end and knowing that a "prop" plane just smoked your @ss as you float helplessly in your parachute OR unless you're pilot in that prop plane having a nice big red star being painted on your aircraft while you're being doused with champagne...

[Matt308]

Steady...

[FLYBOYJ]

[Bullockracing]

I love the Spiteful... Didn't think the AD Skyraider was a fighter...

[mkloby]

I love the Spiteful... Didn't think the AD Skyraider was a fighter...

A-1 wasn't a fighter. But hell - even SBD's smoked out zeros!

[ohka345]

FUCHIDA!NOT FUCHIDO! i have a die-cast toy of fuchida's nakajima

[renrich]

Speaking of dissimilar a/c in a dogfight, I wonder if a fighter like Mig 21,23 or even 29 ever got in a low level dogfight with an A-10? What would youralls opinion be about that match up?

[FLYBOYJ]

Speaking of dissimilar a/c in a dogfight, I wonder if a fighter like Mig 21,23 or even 29 ever got in a low level dogfight with an A-10? What would youralls opinion be about that match up?

An F-86 shot down a Mig-21 during one of the India-Pakistan conflicts. If that isn't dissimilar I don't know what is.