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Best Piston Engined Fighter Ever

Old Threads Discuss Best Piston Engined Fighter Ever in the Old Stuff forums; I sure as hell dont. I also dont see anyone here who does except for maybe the guy who thinks ...

  1. #151
    Der Crew Chief DerAdlerIstGelandet's Avatar
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    I sure as hell dont. I also dont see anyone here who does except for maybe the guy who thinks the Corsair is the best because it shot down a Mig.



    fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet View Post
    I sure as hell dont. I also dont see anyone here who does except for maybe the guy who thinks the Corsair is the best because it shot down a Mig.
    I didn't say you personally did, I don't even know who you are But there's quite a bit more than that one guy. Just two post ago somebody again mentioned A-1's claimed 2 MiG-17's in SEA, didn't say A-1's claimed 2 MiG-17's and MiG's downed 3 A-1's (it's almost never quoted that way).

    The unusual incidents of Western prop success against swept wing MiG's are often repeated; the more numerous cases of MiG's downing prop planes (in incidents other than those in which props also claimed) are hardly ever mentioned. I don't think that's debateable, it's obvious. IMO that naturally cumulatively and demonstrably leads to a misimpression not limited to completely uninformed people. You may not be under that misimpression (which I didn't say you were) and your opinion may differ how many others are.

    Joe

  3. #153
    Der Crew Chief DerAdlerIstGelandet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeB View Post
    I didn't say you personally did,
    I was not talking to you either when I said that...


    fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

  4. #154
    IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO FLYBOYJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeB View Post
    Just two post ago somebody again mentioned A-1's claimed 2 MiG-17's in SEA, didn't say A-1's claimed 2 MiG-17's and MiG's downed 3 A-1's (it's almost never quoted that way).
    I said it and its a fact, witnessed and confirmed...

    21 June 1966 by LT Clinton B. Johnson and LTJG Charles W. Hartman III (shared victory) of VA-25, and on 9 October 1966 by LTJG William T. Patton of VA-176.

    And the reason why we don't hear about it the other way around becuase in reality it is an oddity and I made that clear in my last post which describes WHY this happens in real terms rather than coming up with a reason to down play it.
    Last edited by FLYBOYJ; 03-16-2007 at 12:34 PM.

  5. #155
    Senior Member davparlr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ View Post
    As stated in earlier posts, first and second generation turbine aircraft were notorious for having poor engine spool up times. The Mig-15 accelerated well but when slowed down to speeds under 350 mph still did not initially accelerate as well when compared to older recip aircraft.
    I remember flying the T-37, which had centrifugal compressors similar to the Mig-15, and trying to accelerate after a stall series. I would run the throttles full forward and wait. First there was a low pitch whine with no increase in thrust, then the whine increased in pitch and after quite a time, the rpm would get into the 90% plus range, then I would start to feel a push in the back. Also, because acceleration was so slow, on final, the T-37 flew with speed brakes out and a gizmo out, called a thrust attenuator (small flaps that extended right behind the engine into the exhaust). This kept the RPMs high and if you had to go around, you pushed the throttles forward and closed the speed brake, which also closed the thrust attenuators. You got good response that way. Of course the T-38 was a whole different bird. When you plugged in the ABs on that plane it just leaped forward.

  6. #156
    IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO FLYBOYJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davparlr View Post
    I remember flying the T-37, which had centrifugal compressors similar to the Mig-15, and trying to accelerate after a stall series. I would run the throttles full forward and wait. First there was a low pitch whine with no increase in thrust, then the whine increased in pitch and after quite a time, the rpm would get into the 90% plus range, then I would start to feel a push in the back. Also, because acceleration was so slow, on final, the T-37 flew with speed brakes out and a gizmo out, called a thrust attenuator (small flaps that extended right behind the engine into the exhaust). This kept the RPMs high and if you had to go around, you pushed the throttles forward and closed the speed brake, which also closed the thrust attenuators. You got good response that way. Of course the T-38 was a whole different bird. When you plugged in the ABs on that plane it just leaped forward.
    Great info Dave - I figured the "Tweet" would have some of those characteristics. The worse one I've flown in is a Fouga Magister, that thing is really gutless....

    I think you could see how easy it is to get yourself into trouble in such aircraft. Put this it in a combat situation with a low time pilot and the stakes are doubled. One would probably have to analyze each combat scenario to see what each turbine aircraft pilot did to allow himself to get into a firing solution from a recip opponent but its funny as it happened in Vietnam the Mig-17 did have ABs

    BTW - According to ACIG a YAK-9 downed an F-80 on July 19, 1950. It seems this is the only one for the Commies during Korea unless JoeB comes up with something else. As far as Communist jet fighters downing UN recip aircraft? (I know there are some who would like to see that) ACIG shows 6 for the Chinese and 9 for the Russians.
    Last edited by FLYBOYJ; 03-16-2007 at 03:09 PM.

  7. #157
    Senior Member davparlr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ View Post
    Great info Dave - I figured the "Tweet" would have some of those characteristics. The worse one I've flown in is a Fouga Magister, that thing is really gutless....

    I think you could see how easy it is to get yourself into trouble in such aircraft. Put this it in a combat situation with a low time pilot and the stakes are doubled. One would probably have to analyze each combat scenario to see what each turbine aircraft pilot did to allow himself to get into a firing solution from a recip opponent but its funny as it happened in Vietnam the Mig-17 did have ABs

    BTW - According to ACIG a YAK-9 downed an F-80 on July 19, 1950. It seems this is the only one for the Commies during Korea unless JoeB comes up with something else. As far as Communist jet fighters downing UN recip aircraft? (I know there are some who would like to see that) ACIG shows 6 for the Chinese and 9 for the Russians.

    If you kept the rpms up it flew fine. You have to fly it like you drive a small displacement turbo car, gotta keep the rpms up.

  8. #158
    Senior Member mkloby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ View Post
    It's kind of funny - these rare incidents also happened in Vietnam 15 years later where Skyraiders Shot down Mig-17s on 2 occasions. Rare? Yes. No big deal? Maybe, unless you're on the receiving end and knowing that a "prop" plane just smoked your @ss as you float helplessly in your parachute OR unless you're pilot in that prop plane having a nice big red star being painted on your aircraft while you're being doused with champagne...
    If the Army and the Navy ever look on heaven's scenes, they will find the streets are guarded by United States Marines



  9. #159
    Glock Perfection Matt308's Avatar
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    Steady...

    "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if
    they made a difference in the world. But, the [U.S.]
    Marines don't have that problem."
    -- Ronald Reagan

    Master of Duplicate Posts

  10. #160
    IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO FLYBOYJ's Avatar
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  11. #161
    Senior Member Bullockracing's Avatar
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    I love the Spiteful... Didn't think the AD Skyraider was a fighter...

  12. #162
    Senior Member mkloby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullockracing View Post
    I love the Spiteful... Didn't think the AD Skyraider was a fighter...
    A-1 wasn't a fighter. But hell - even SBD's smoked out zeros!
    If the Army and the Navy ever look on heaven's scenes, they will find the streets are guarded by United States Marines



  13. #163
    Member ohka345's Avatar
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    FUCHIDA!NOT FUCHIDO! i have a die-cast toy of fuchida's nakajima

  14. #164
    Senior Member renrich's Avatar
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    Speaking of dissimilar a/c in a dogfight, I wonder if a fighter like Mig 21,23 or even 29 ever got in a low level dogfight with an A-10? What would youralls opinion be about that match up?

  15. #165
    IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO FLYBOYJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renrich View Post
    Speaking of dissimilar a/c in a dogfight, I wonder if a fighter like Mig 21,23 or even 29 ever got in a low level dogfight with an A-10? What would youralls opinion be about that match up?
    An F-86 shot down a Mig-21 during one of the India-Pakistan conflicts. If that isn't dissimilar I don't know what is.

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