Did the US save Europe in WW2?

[lesofprimus]

I think for arguments sake, the fact that the US could not have defeated Germany on its own is a given... The same is true if u turn it around, the Allies wouldnt have beaten Germany without the USA's assistance....

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

Without the US, the Europe would have been dominated by Germany or Russia!

OOOOOH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! !

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by m kenny

It is your straw man argument Reverse it and it is equaly true that US resources could not defeat Germany alone. Note though that only you feel the need to puff out your chest and actively slight one of the other Allied powers.

I have never claimed that.

I REPEAT.....THE US COULD NOT HAVE DEFEATED THE GERMANS ALONE!!!! BUT IT IS CLEARLY EVIDENT THAT WITHOUT THE MATERIAL AND MANPOWER OF THE US, THE COMMONWEALTH COUNTRIES COULD NEVER HAVE BEATEN THE GERMANS.

True the addition of the US made the scales tilt in the Allied direction but only because they were nearly in blance to begin with. The USSR gave more in % terms than the US. They and they (virtualy) alone destroyed the German Army.

They did a great job doing it didnt they? Of course we helped them along with quite a lot of material support.

Thus you can say is the US contribution finaly tipped the balance. Saying it could have done it unaided in just speculation.

I have always maintained that!!!!!

And the bottom line is, without the US getting involved in the fight in Europe, either the Germans win, or the Russians win.

Europe owes us an unending debt of gratitude for that!

[Marcel]

Europe owes us an unending debt of gratitude for that!

LOL
You really like this arguing, don't you Syscom
True is true, we owe this to the US as you say, but we also owe a great deal of gratitude to the UK as we know we couldn't have been liberated if it weren't for the both, Commonwealth and US!
So all of you are right in my opinion!

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by Marcel

LOL
You really like this arguing, don't you Syscom
True is true, we owe this to the US as you say, but we also owe a great deal of gratitude to the UK as we know we couldn't have been liberated if it weren't for the both, Commonwealth and US!
So all of you are right in my opinion!

I like proving the point.

Nothing that the "others" have said disproves me.

[lesofprimus]

They cant disprove ur general statement sys, but certain points u make are disputable, locos, tanks etc etc....

Maybe we can get back on topic.... German or Russian????

Could the Russians on the Eastern Front beat the unhindered in the West Juggernaut rolling across Russia??? Could they have taken Berlin and then into France and have Russian as the language of the European Continent???

I personally dont think so... I think that without the US joining the Allies, Germany stands...

[Hunter368]

I agree with Dan & Sys on this one.

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by syscom3

Europe owes us an unending debt of gratitude for that!

I do agree with you Syscom overall, 95%.

But this comment I don't agree with. Europe owes USA an unending debt of gratitude?

This is why I don't agree with that. Lets say USA did not help in WW2 in Europe, so Germany or Russia would of taken over.....I agree.

But if USA would of stayed out of Europe and let Germany or Russia take over then what would the world like today?

You really think USA would of been able to stay out of WW2 Europe and still be the same USA as it is today? I don't think so. If you combine all of Russia's and Europe's man power and industrial base (stay with me now, if USA stayed out of it and Germany or Russia took over)......USA would be dead today (most likely)....they would also be speaken Russian or German most likely, it just might of taken 5 or 10 or 15 years longer than Europe.

USA acted in WW2 Europe to help its Allies and do the right thing.......but at the same time it was saving its own butt even if it did not realize it at the time. So to say that Europe owes USA a debt of graditude forever........is BS. Europe and USA helped each other for their mutual benefit, no extra thanks needed.....just mutual respect for each other for a job well done.

[Soundbreaker Welch?]

but at the same time it was saving its own butt even if it did not realize it at the time

.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by Hunter368

You really think USA would of been able to stay out of WW2 Europe and still be the same USA as it is today? I don't think so.

It obviously would be different but the US was protected by two wide oceans and impervious to invasion.

Russia or Germany simply could never have produced a navy large enough to attack the US.

If you combine all of Russia's and Europe's man power and industrial base (stay with me now, if USA stayed out of it and Germany or Russia took over)......USA would be dead today (most likely)....they would also be speaken Russian or German most likely, it just might of taken 5 or 10 or 15 years longer than Europe.

So the US just surrenders to either power? Forget about the massive air force and navy we had intact in summer 1945? And again, how will those two combatants, do this? Even without the US having an atomic bomb, it was impossible.

USA acted in WW2 Europe to help its Allies and do the right thing.......but at the same time it was saving its own butt even if it did not realize it at the time. So to say that Europe owes USA a debt of graditude forever........is BS. Europe and USA helped each other for their mutual benefit, no extra thanks needed.....just mutual respect for each other for a job well done.

The purpose of this thread is not to analyze the motivations for the US getting to the European war, its to demonstrate that the allies could not have prevailed over Germany if we were not involved. Its as simple as that.

If the US had not gotten involved, Europe would be under the domination of Germany or Russia.

[lesofprimus]

If the US had not gotten involved, Europe would be under the domination of Germany or Russia.

And if Great Britian and her Commonwealths had not gotten involved, Europe would still be under the domination of Germany or Russia...

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by m kenny

The UK has the distinction of actualy being' on its own' for at least a year so it did show that it could stand the pressure.



.

When was the UK alone I must have missed that part . Aussies and Kiwis in N.Africa plus whatever Canada had in the UK you weren't alone

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by syscom3

It obviously would be different but the US was protected by two wide oceans and impervious to invasion.

Russia or Germany simply could never have produced a navy large enough to attack the US.



So the US just surrenders to either power? Forget about the massive air force and navy we had intact in summer 1945? And again, how will those two combatants, do this? Even without the US having an atomic bomb, it was impossible.



The purpose of this thread is not to analyze the motivations for the US getting to the European war, its to demonstrate that the allies could not have prevailed over Germany if we were not involved. Its as simple as that.

If the US had not gotten involved, Europe would be under the domination of Germany or Russia.

Those oceans you refer to not offer total protection, helps sure but USA would not of been free from attack.....in 5, 10, 15 or 25 years of building by the victor in Europe. See the cold war....it took the USA 40+ years to beat Russia alone.....never mind if you combined all of Russia and Europe together....USA would of lost.

Give Russia or Germany all of Russia and Europe resources and in 10-20 years she would of surpassed even the USA.

USA did have a big advantage in air power during 44-45......but not for long after that. Again unless USA were to nuke city after city.....the combined strenght of Europe and Russia would of taken USA down, it would of been just a matter of time.

Like I said I agree with you that USA or the Allies alone would of alone had a hard time with Russia or Germany.....but together they could take them down.

But my first post was to say that I disagree when you say "Europe owes us an unending debt of gratitude for that!".....there you are taking it too far. USA and Europe defeated a power together that if either one acted alone could not defeat. So to ask for a debt of graditude forever......BS. Thats wrong to say.

[Hunter368]

Originally Posted by lesofprimus

And if Great Britian and her Commonwealths had not gotten involved, Europe would still be under the domination of Germany or Russia...

Thats my point I was making to him also.....not only Europe....but perhaps the entire world or at least a big part of it.

[trackend]

I agree PB, I think MK may be referring to being being directly attacked, in that aspect the UK was on its own and the civilian population had to bear the full fury of a concerted effort of Hitlers forces with the prospect of an invasion.