Did the US save Europe in WW2?

[lesofprimus]

Oh Jesus...

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by Emac44

I like that Sys considers vast amounts of people in the Commonwealth were iliterate.

Vast numbers of the colonial people were illiterate, such as the populations in India, Nigeria, etc.

And how long have you thought Australians New Zealanders Canadians South Africans Malays Singaporeans etc are dumb as dog **** Sys?

I never considered them to be illiterate, as most were populated by whites who did have an educational adavantage over the other colonial peoples

And according to your thread the US wasn't in the War WHICH MEANS NEITHER WAS JAPAN THAT BROUGHT THE USA INTO THE WAR WHEN IT ATTACKED PEARK HARBOUR AND PHILIPPINES.

Japan was going to attack the US and others regardless of what Germany was going to do. I've always stated in this thread that this war was going to have the US at war with Japan, but not Germany.

And as soon as Japan had attacked the USA and her overseas possessions less that in a 48 hours Germany and Italy declared war on the US. You are concentrating on this being a European War. Which it wasn't after December 1941 when it became Global.

It was Germany declaring war on the US, that gave us the excuse to declare war on them. If Germany had stayed on the sidelines after Dec 7th, then there is every indication the US would have stayed out of the European war.

And with Japan not part of this scenerio your opinions of the Commonwealth supplying Great Britian is based on that Japan was in WW2 after December 1941. Which wouldn't have been the case as Japan would not have been involved as according to you US was NOT INVOLVED AND HENCE NEITHER WAS JAPAN

Go back to the start of the thread and quite me where I said that the US would stay out of the war in the pacific.

And Sys who are you to consider PEOPLE OF THE EMPIRE WERE AS DUMB AS DOG ****. When the British set about educating the natives of the EMPIRE NATIONS unlike the France Belguim and Holland at the same time.

But why was there huge illiteracy problems in more than a few countries after decolonization? And I am not reffering to ANZAC, or Canada.

My point is that just because Britain had a few hundred million subjects in India, it didnt mean that there was a vast pool of manpower to tap to be thrust into a war that was beginning to be shown to be quite a technical affair to be run.

I am sorry but I am taking exception to these overtures of people who were natives in the Commonwealth and the British Empire from Sys. it has gone to sheer arrogance in my opinion

Unfortunatly, facts can be disheartening to people.

It still stands, and noone has proven me wrong......

The UK did not have the industrial or manpower capacity to defeat Germany on its own. Only Russia did.

End result is (mainland) Europe speaking German or Russian.

[Bernhart]

getting the feeling that sys loves POing people. At least hope its that and he isn't what his post make him seem to be.

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by Bernhart

getting the feeling that sys loves POing people. At least hope its that and he isn't what his post make him seem to be.

PO'ing people?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Pissing off people....

[lesofprimus]

getting the feeling that sys loves POing people. At least hope its that and he isn't what his post make him seem to be.

Sys has excelled in the art of pissing members off since his inception into our midst 2 years ago... I would never expect, or want him to, change in any way...

[syscom3]

You have to have a thick skin to last here in this forum.

[lesofprimus]

God, I love u man...

[FLYBOYJ]

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

As long as he does not turn into a (and I never have thought he would) Lunatic, sys will be sys.

[syscom3]

the people who usually get pissed off are the ones who discover they were wrong.

Like I was about the B24 ( )

Now back to business.

Since the US military power in the MTO wasn't felt untill 1943, could Germany turn around its fortunes in the east with Russia during this year? Would some extra divisions and LW units from Italy (and Germany itself) make enough of a difference?

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I think Germany could have defeated Russia and turned it around with the right decisions. Hitler made all the wrong decisions. He should have let his commanders do the fighting and realized that he is not a tactician and is very lousy at his attempts at doing so.

Politicians will not win a war, especially when they let there misguided ideas lead the way and influence there decisions.

[machine shop tom]

"It was Germany declaring war on the US, that gave us the excuse to declare war on them. If Germany had stayed on the sidelines after Dec 7th, then there is every indication the US would have stayed out of the European war."

I disagree. There was actually every indication that the U.S. going to war with Germany was inevitable. The U.S/United Kingdom ties were too strong, as were Churchill and Roosevelt's. The U.S. was defacto arming the Brits from early on and Germany almost precipitated war by having the BB Texas in a U-boats sights. With U-boats sinking ships on both sides of the Atlantic and in the Caribbean (and, indeed in the Gulf of Mexico), and with Britain's increasingly bad situation, public outcry would have increased until war was declared.

tom

[syscom3]

Originally Posted by machine shop tom

"It was Germany declaring war on the US, that gave us the excuse to declare war on them. If Germany had stayed on the sidelines after Dec 7th, then there is every indication the US would have stayed out of the European war."

I disagree. There was actually every indication that the U.S. going to war with Germany was inevitable. The U.S/United Kingdom ties were too strong, as were Churchill and Roosevelt's. The U.S. was defacto arming the Brits from early on and Germany almost precipitated war by having the BB Texas in a U-boats sights. With U-boats sinking ships on both sides of the Atlantic and in the Caribbean (and, indeed in the Gulf of Mexico), and with Britain's increasingly bad situation, public outcry would have increased until war was declared.

tom

You're forgetting that even on the eve of Pearl harbor, the isolationist crowd was still quite strong. And even on the evening of Dec 7th, there were still large numbers of congressman and senators that still hoped we would not be drawn into the European conflict.

And your also forgetting that the purpose of this thread is to show that without the US getting involved, then "contiental" Europe would be speaking German or Russian.

[lesofprimus]

May have to agree with Tom, but the one thing that still gets me is whether or not Hitler wanted to pull the US into the fray.... I think he was gobbled up in his power and thought himself/Germany undefeatable....

Why else would he have attacked Russia???

As for the whole "No USA would Germany beat USSR?" gimmick, they probably stood a better chance of it without US involvement of any sort... With some better advice to Hitler and letting Guderian do what he always wanted to do, it probably would have happened....

Im pretty sure that Stalingrad would have fallen... Thats alot of extra machines and men that the Germans could have utilized instead of sitting on some farmland in France... If there werent hundreds and hundred and thousands of British and American bombers flying over the Ruhr and Berlin, where would the large portion of those Luftwaffe aircraft go to....

Mother Russia, supporting the Panzers...