View Poll Results: Did Iraq still have WMD's?

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  • Yes Iraq had WMD's

    9 75.00%
  • No Iraq did not have WMD's

    2 16.67%
  • Not sure but there is more to it than has been released to the public.

    1 8.33%
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Following Iraq's bioweapons trail

Old Threads Discuss Following Iraq's bioweapons trail in the Old Stuff forums; By Robert Novak Sun-Times Columnist September 26/02 Sen. Robert Byrd, a master at hectoring executive branch witnesses, asked Defense Secretary ...

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    Senior Member Hunter368's Avatar
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    Following Iraq's bioweapons trail

    By Robert Novak
    Sun-Times Columnist
    September 26/02



    Sen. Robert Byrd, a master at hectoring executive branch witnesses, asked Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld a provocative question last week: Did the United States help Saddam Hussein produce weapons of biological warfare? Rumsfeld brushed off the Senate's 84-year-old president pro tem like a Pentagon reporter. But a paper trail indicates Rumsfeld should have answered yes.

    An eight-year-old Senate report confirms that disease- producing and poisonous materials were exported, under U.S. government license, to Iraq from 1985 to 1988 during the Iran-Iraq war. Furthermore, the report adds, the American- exported materials were identical to microorganisms destroyed by United Nations inspectors after the Gulf War. The shipments were approved despite allegations that Saddam used biological weapons against Kurdish rebels and (according to the current official U.S. position) initiated war with Iran.

    This record is no argument for or against waging war against the Iraqi regime, but current U.S. officials are not eager to reconstruct the mostly secret relationship between the two countries. While biological warfare exports were approved by the U.S. government, the first President George Bush signed a policy directive proposing ''normal'' relations with Saddam in the interest of Middle East stability. Looking at a little U.S.-Iraqi history might be useful on the eve of a fateful military undertaking.

    At a Senate Armed Services hearing last Thursday, Byrd tried to disinter that history. ''Did the United States help Iraq to acquire the building blocks of biological weapons during the Iran-Iraq war?'' he asked Rumsfeld. ''Certainly not to my knowledge,'' Rumsfeld replied. When Byrd persisted by reading a current Newsweek article reporting these exports, Rumsfeld said, ''I have never heard anything like what you've read, I have no knowledge of it whatsoever, and I doubt it.''

    That suggests Rumsfeld also has not read the sole surviving copy of a May 25, 1994, Senate Banking Committee report. In 1985 (five years after the Iraq-Iran war started) and succeeding years, said the report, ''pathogenic (meaning ''disease producing''), toxigenic (meaning ''poisonous'') and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq, pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce.'' It added: ''These exported biological materials were not attenuated or weakened and were capable of reproduction.''

    The report then details 70 shipments (including anthrax bacillus) from the United States to Iraqi government agencies over three years, concluding, ''It was later learned that these microorganisms exported by the United States were identical to those the United Nations inspectors found and recovered from the Iraqi biological warfare program.''

    With Baghdad having survived combat against Iran's revolutionary regime with U.S. help, President George H.W. Bush signed National Security Directive 26 on Oct. 2, 1989. Classified ''secret'' but recently declassified, it said: ''Normal relations between the United States and Iraq would serve our longer-term interests and promote stability in both the Gulf and the Middle East. The United States government should propose economic and political incentives for Iraq to moderate its behavior and to increase our influence with Iraq.''

    Bush the elder, who said recently that he ''hates'' Saddam, saw no reason then to oust the Iraqi dictator. On the contrary, the government's approval of exporting microorganisms to Iraq coincided with the Bush administration's decision to save Saddam from defeat by the Iranian mullahs.

    The Newsweek article (by Christopher Dickey and Evan Thomas) that so interested Byrd reported on Rumsfeld's visit to Baghdad on Dec. 20, 1983, that launched U.S. support for Saddam against Iran. Answering Byrd's questions, Rumsfeld said he did meet with Saddam and Foreign Minister Tariq Aziz, but was dismissive about assisting ''as a private citizen . . . only for a period of months.'' Rumsfeld contended he was then interested in curbing terrorism in Lebanon.

    Quite a different account was given in a sworn court statement by Howard Teicher on Jan. 31, 1995. Teicher, a National Security Council aide who accompanied Rumsfeld to Baghdad, said Rumsfeld relayed Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir's offer to help Iraq in its war. ''Aziz refused even to accept the Israeli's letter to [Saddam] Hussein offering assistance,'' said Teicher, ''because Aziz told us that he would be executed on the spot.''

    Following Iraq's bioweapons trail


    "Ivan the Terrible or Russian Achilles" Ivan Kozhedub - Hero of the USSR (x3), Order of Lenin (x2), Order of Red Banner (x7), Order of Alexander Nevsky, Order of the Great Patriotic War (x2), Order of the Red Star (x2), 62 kills during 1943-1945

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    Senior Member Hunter368's Avatar
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    I found this webpage and found this article which is interesting. Thought I would share it with you all and see what you all think.


    "Ivan the Terrible or Russian Achilles" Ivan Kozhedub - Hero of the USSR (x3), Order of Lenin (x2), Order of Red Banner (x7), Order of Alexander Nevsky, Order of the Great Patriotic War (x2), Order of the Red Star (x2), 62 kills during 1943-1945

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    Senior Member Hunter368's Avatar
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    Report: U.S. supplied the kinds of germs Iraq later used for biological weapons

    WASHINGTON (AP) Iraq's bioweapons program that President Bush wants to eradicate got its start with help from Uncle Sam two decades ago, according to government records getting new scrutiny in light of the discussion of war against Iraq.

    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention sent samples directly to several Iraqi sites that U.N. weapons inspectors determined were part of Saddam Hussein's biological weapons program, CDC and congressional records from the early 1990s show. Iraq had ordered the samples, claiming it needed them for legitimate medical research. (Related story: A look at U.S. shipments of pathogens to Iraq)

    The CDC and a biological sample company, the American Type Culture Collection, sent strains of all the germs Iraq used to make weapons, including anthrax, the bacteria that make botulinum toxin and the germs that cause gas gangrene, the records show. Iraq also got samples of other deadly pathogens, including the West Nile virus.

    USATODAY.com - Report: U.S. supplied the kinds of germs Iraq later used for biological weapons


    "Ivan the Terrible or Russian Achilles" Ivan Kozhedub - Hero of the USSR (x3), Order of Lenin (x2), Order of Red Banner (x7), Order of Alexander Nevsky, Order of the Great Patriotic War (x2), Order of the Red Star (x2), 62 kills during 1943-1945

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    IP/Mech THE GREAT GAZOO FLYBOYJ's Avatar
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    I seen these articles before - no secret we gave Iraq all kinds of WMD goodies in the good ole cold war years figuring he'd waste the Iranians and any other stray commie that might come his way - Instead he gassed the Kurds and some of his own people and turned into a real shithead as we all know. Its ashamed we gave this jerkoff those weapons but it was a different world then and I guess those geniuses in the Pentagon and CIA would of never guess he'd invade Kuwait...

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    Senior Member lesofprimus's Avatar
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    And I will state this again, Iraq HAD WMD's in 1990 AND 2003...



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    Senior Member mkloby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesofprimus View Post
    And I will state this again, Iraq HAD WMD's in 1990 AND 2003...
    Some just won't believe that, no matter what...
    If the Army and the Navy ever look on heaven's scenes, they will find the streets are guarded by United States Marines



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    Senior Member lesofprimus's Avatar
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    I know, thats whats so sad about the whole thing.... Whats admitted to the "press" aint always the whole truth... There are things I still cant talk about, but its true...



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    The Pop-Tart Whisperer Njaco's Avatar
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    lesofprimus - And I will state this again, Iraq HAD WMD's in 1990 AND 2003...
    shipped through Syria and France.

    The Command Post - Iraq - The Facts Stand Alone

    ParaPundit: Where Iraq Purchased Weapons 1973-2002

    Still callin those things French Fries?

    "If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it's English, thank a soldier!"


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    Senior Member lesofprimus's Avatar
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    NO, and u know whats sad???

    I use a certain pen in my line of work, exclusively... U may know it... Its the 4 colored Bic pen with the small colored slides at the top of it...

    Its the greatest thing in my line of work, and its uses are utilized countless times a day....

    The bad thing is that its made in France.... It irks me every now and then...
    Attached Images



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    The Pop-Tart Whisperer Njaco's Avatar
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    I know and the worst part if I refused to use anything not American made I'd only have a tampoon and watermelon peeler!

    Again the media steers this country.I love it now when they state Iraq never held terriorist. Well.. if I remember one of the first captures was the mastermind of the Aqule Lauro (sorry, bad spelling) the incident where the American in a wheelchair was killed I believe.

    Hogwash!!!

    "If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it's English, thank a soldier!"


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    Senior Member Hunter368's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Njaco View Post
    shipped through Syria and France.

    The Command Post - Iraq - The Facts Stand Alone

    ParaPundit: Where Iraq Purchased Weapons 1973-2002

    Still callin those things French Fries?
    Nice charts


    "Ivan the Terrible or Russian Achilles" Ivan Kozhedub - Hero of the USSR (x3), Order of Lenin (x2), Order of Red Banner (x7), Order of Alexander Nevsky, Order of the Great Patriotic War (x2), Order of the Red Star (x2), 62 kills during 1943-1945

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    Senior Member Hunter368's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesofprimus View Post
    I know, thats whats so sad about the whole thing.... Whats admitted to the "press" aint always the whole truth... There are things I still cant talk about, but its true...

    Agreed, buts its hard to make people believe this when all they believe is what is released in the papers and news.


    "Ivan the Terrible or Russian Achilles" Ivan Kozhedub - Hero of the USSR (x3), Order of Lenin (x2), Order of Red Banner (x7), Order of Alexander Nevsky, Order of the Great Patriotic War (x2), Order of the Red Star (x2), 62 kills during 1943-1945

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    Der Crew Chief DerAdlerIstGelandet's Avatar
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    We found French Made Hardware built in 2002 where we were camped out at. That is the only reason they did not support the war. So that we wouldn ot find what they were selling them and also because it stopped some of there cash flow.


    fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

  14. #14
    Senior Member Civettone's Avatar
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    Blog Entries
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    - Iraq didn't have WMDs since the late 90s.
    - French companies may have smuggled some stuff in. This is not the same as saying French government was behind it. Corruption can be found everywhere.
    - France and almost the entire world was against the war because it was illegitimate, as it was without a UNSC authorisation.

    Kris



  15. #15
    Der Crew Chief DerAdlerIstGelandet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Civettone View Post
    - Iraq didn't have WMDs since the late 90s.
    Kris
    That is bullshit. We found WMD's. But then again you are 100 percent correct because well I was there and you only read the media reports.

    Hmmm I guess based off what you are saying Arty shells with Mustard Gas are not Chemical Weapons among other things that we found.

    Do you really think that everything is leaked to the Press. The Press only knows about 10 percent of what is going on. The Press does not find out things because it puts soldiers more at risk when they know things.

    Oh and French made bombs are not sold and shipped to Iraq without government knowledge. These bombs were shipped and built during the UN sanctions emplaced on Iraq. Therefore they were illegally sold....

    France should have been punished by the UN for this but as we all know (well that is people that have common sense and see what is happening in the world) know that the UN is a crock of **** and useless.


    fly boy:"isnt that the first jet bomber becasue i have flown one in a flight sim before and i know how it handles"

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