Ju88 vs De Havilland Mosquito - Aircraft of World War II

jj1982 · 03-23-2004, 12:49 PM

Thank you CC for proposing this site....here is a short history of each aircraft and then its up to you to give your arguments!

First of, the Ju-88.

The Ju-88 was one the most versitle aircraft of WW2. Its career began in 1936 and by 1939 it had been developed as a fast dive bomber and recon aircraft and was later used as a torpedo bomber, a nightfighter a heavy day fighter and an anti tank aircraft! The first fighter conversions of the Ju88 were similar to the bomber versions with only mods made to the nose and a gondola under the forward fuselage to accomadate radar and guns The aircraft was a formidable opponant throughout the war.

It had a crew of four, the A series were bombers, torpedo bombers and a recon aircraft. They were powered by a paer of 1007kW Junkers Jumo 211J-` engines. The setup gave the bomber a max speed of 292 mph a ceiling of 26,900ft and a range of 1,700 miles. I usually carried one 133mm, three 7.92 and a set of twin 7.92 mm machine guns and 6600 llbs of bomvs.

The nightfighter ususally had a crew of three. The engines weere a set of 1305kW Junkers Jumo 213A-1 with a max speed of 360 moh...(some difference to the convential bomber). It had a ceiling of 31500ft, and a range of 1360 miles. The weaponary is real impressive....Five or six 20mm cannons, and a heavy 13mm machine gun in the rear. The armaments were required to quickly down the large allied bombers at night. Later G varients alsso carried short range lictenstien radar to detect bombers after beinge vectored to them by operators on the ground.

Now for the Mossie

The De Havilland Aircraft Company was noted for its light saircraft, such as the tiger moth and some mixed transport planes. IN 1938, Dh proposed that they should build a bomber or recon plane that would be so fast that it could be unarmed.

The mossie NF MKII had a heavy armament of four cannons and four machine guns. It carried the AI MK IV radar. Fighting forrom malta as a day fighter, it was also used as a night intruder. Because of its high speed crews needed some time to grow accomsted to the new machine. A prototype training model was also made with dual controls (Very good Idea). It had two 1,620 hp RR merlin 25 V12 Piston engines, it had a maxspeed of 362 mph with a cieling of 33000ft. The rabge was 1650 miles with a full bomb load. The Mossie or Balsa Bomber warried four 20mm cannons in the nose, Four 7.7mm machine guns in the nose and 2000 llbs of bombs or 1000 llbs of bombs and eight rockets.

Please let me have your opinions....on topic please!
:P

bronzewhaler82 · 03-23-2004, 01:23 PM

Though the JU88 is a great bomber...it must be said there really is no comparisson between the two aircraft..at all

Though i note you wrote a good few paragraphs about the JU88 the Mossie Only warranted a few lines - from this i can assume you are biassed? (the picture of the Ju88 on your signature was also the giveaway

)

For a start the Mossie was more of a fighter than a bomber (although it could perform both roles fantastically - something the JU88 could only do well at night) The Mossies top speed was actually 370mph - considerably faster than the JU88s 270mph.
The Ju88 was made of metal, had a large crew and lots of weapons aboard...which automatically made it more expensive to mass produce and repair, slower, less manouvorable and an easier target than the mossie - the 'Wooden Wonder' was also used for far more things than you mentioned - for instance it was used as a Day-fighter, Night Fighter, Bomber escort, Reconassance, it was used to bomb airfields, ships, cities it was used to the navy as well as the airforce and stayed in service til the mid 1950s cos it really was that good

it saved this country ridiculus amounts of money on manufactoring as it was made almost completely out of wood - its speed was sensational making it almost impossible to catch by German fighters - it could carry a bombload equvilant to a B-17 heavy bomber (considering it was made out of wood and was alot smaller - this fact is particularly amazing! wartime losses of mosquitos were nothing compared to Ju88 losses (yes, i know more Ju88 s were built but even taking that into account - Ju88 losses were higher in comparison)

The Mossies service ceiling was higher
Its range was longer

In fact the only things the Ju88 was better at was Torpedo bombing (cos the Mossie wasn't used for that although it did attack ships with a huge cannon in the nose) and the fact that it had a heavier bomb load...so
Don't get me wrong - the Ju88 was a fantastic plane and did the Germans alot of credit

But really there is NO comparison

The Mosquito was the better aircraft by far...hell it even looked better

Huckebein · 03-23-2004, 01:30 PM

Here, here - I think I listed the Mossie's roles somewhere else on this site, hang on.

...

... Ah yes, here it is:

Quote:

It began life/ was designed and built as a high-speed unarmed bomber, but was found to handle so well, be so manoeuvrable and so fast that it was soon adapted to fulfill any number of other roles. During it's operational career the Mossie served as a bomber (you could even say 'heavy' bomber - late Mosquitoes could carry heavier loads than a B-17, but with 1/5 the crew at almost twice the speed and the same range), PR bird (the best available to the allies 'til jets turned up), fighter, fighter-bomber, night-fighter, intruder, heavy strike/ anti-shipping fighter (Fb XVIII 'Tsetse'), target-tug, trainer, glider-tug, VIP transport, BOAC airliner (flying the very dangerous runs to Sweden to pick up loads which included escaped airmen and political prisoners etc.), and I'm sure I've missed a few as well. Christ, it was even cleared for carrier operations(!), and a special squadron of 'Highball' Mosquitoes was preparing to ship to the Far East for carrier operations against the IJN when Germany surrendered and it was deemed unnecessary, now that the British Atlantic and Mediterranean Fleets were free to take part in the Pacific campaign. What's more, it excelled in all of these roles, whereas the Ju 88 never really did make the grade as a day fighter...

In short, I challenge you to think up a role which the Ju 88 took up, but the Mosquito did/ could not.

Ok, so we now have dive-bomber and torpedo-bomber as two roles that the Ju-88 took up and the Mosquito didn't, but I think that overall we have to agree that the Mosquito was far more effective in each individual role than the Ju-88.

Don't get me wrong - the Ju-88 was a fantastic aircraft to have on strength, especially due to its ability to do almost anything to an acceptable standard, but I know which of the pair I'd have if I had to choose...

jj1982 · 03-23-2004, 01:56 PM

I must say that you have both made some excellent valid points and i would like to take CC outside and shoot him for the idea of this thread!

(only kiding mate)

However...I still defend the Ju88 to the hilt....(can see this going horribly wrong!). I think it was an excellent aircraft and yes bronze, your right..,. al little biassed is a slight understatement. If you compare the Ju88 to other German aircraft you will see why i think it is a truly amazing plane.

bronzewhaler82 · 03-23-2004, 03:01 PM

I totally respect your opinion mate...but instead of just saying you think its a better plane...why don't you prove it by giving us info which PROVES its a better plane...sorry to say it mate but you won't be able to cos the Mosquito was simply a better plane and nobody would despute that (except you but i just think thats cos you're heavily biassed rather than factual)

Besides no-one is saying the JU88 was a bad plane (in fact we both said its a great plane) but it simply wasn't up to the Mosquitos standards sorry mate

Huckebein · 03-23-2004, 06:09 PM

Heh - it was just luck in any case; neither plane was meant to carry out so many tasks, it just turned out that they could. It's therefore no fault of the designers if one of them does this better than the other - the designers' success is measured by whether it performed it's intended role well or not. Both of them did, both of them were good at other stuff too, the Mossie was better at other stuff. That's just the luck of the draw...

jj1982 · 03-23-2004, 08:06 PM

good comment!

bronzewhaler82 · 03-24-2004, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckebein

Heh - it was just luck in any case; neither plane was meant to carry out so many tasks, it just turned out that they could. It's therefore no fault of the designers if one of them does this better than the other - the designers' success is measured by whether it performed it's intended role well or not. Both of them did, both of them were good at other stuff too, the Mossie was better at other stuff. That's just the luck of the draw...

I disagree - i think it was the performance of the individual aircraft that made the difference 'luck' doesn't really come into it

The Mosquito was groundbreaking and without a doubt one of the best planes (in my opinion THE best but thats arguable) of WW2 - the JU88 was good but the Norm in the way bombers of that period were designed - the Mosquito however is instantly recognisable because it was unique and was a fantastic plane - thats why it performed in more roles than the JU88 - it was better

jj1982 · 03-24-2004, 09:12 AM

I have already given my reasons as to why i feel the Ju88 was such a good plane.... I feel that you are saying that the wooden bomber is better cos it is more versitle...however if it wasnt then it wouldnt have met its spec...The Junkers were built and used for thier intended role. And were good at it.

the lancaster kicks ass · 03-24-2004, 09:21 AM

it's the mosquito

jj1982 · 03-24-2004, 09:27 AM

Awright geeezzaa! well, in yaaahr opinion maybe. 'owever i still think what da junkers was a Bobby Pe'a plane suited ter its task. Sorted mate.

Sorry mate decided to speak in rhyimg slang! Much more fun!

the lancaster kicks ass · 03-24-2004, 09:38 AM

that's not cockner rhyming slang, that's scottish...................

jj1982 · 03-24-2004, 09:42 AM

Blimey! well, i' isn' is it???? I 'ave never been norf ov da M25. Let Billy No Mates been ter scotland! Nuff said, yeah?

the lancaster kicks ass · 03-24-2004, 10:08 AM

stop doing that, face it, YOU CAN'T DO ACCENTS....................

bronzewhaler82 · 03-24-2004, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jj1982

I have already given my reasons as to why i feel the Ju88 was such a good plane.... I feel that you are saying that the wooden bomber is better cos it is more versitle...however if it wasnt then it wouldnt have met its spec...The Junkers were built and used for thier intended role. And were good at it.

I'm starting to get annoyed now...JJ1982 - your arguments make little sense...did you not read my post at all? if you did you obviously skip-read it or something cos i mentioned lots of reasons why it was better. For example. Speed, range and ceiling.

have a proper read and then get back to us yeah?

03-23-2004, 12:49 PM	#1
jj1982 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 216	Ju88 vs De Havilland Mosquito Thank you CC for proposing this site....here is a short history of each aircraft and then its up to you to give your arguments! First of, the Ju-88. The Ju-88 was one the most versitle aircraft of WW2. Its career began in 1936 and by 1939 it had been developed as a fast dive bomber and recon aircraft and was later used as a torpedo bomber, a nightfighter a heavy day fighter and an anti tank aircraft! The first fighter conversions of the Ju88 were similar to the bomber versions with only mods made to the nose and a gondola under the forward fuselage to accomadate radar and guns The aircraft was a formidable opponant throughout the war. It had a crew of four, the A series were bombers, torpedo bombers and a recon aircraft. They were powered by a paer of 1007kW Junkers Jumo 211J-` engines. The setup gave the bomber a max speed of 292 mph a ceiling of 26,900ft and a range of 1,700 miles. I usually carried one 133mm, three 7.92 and a set of twin 7.92 mm machine guns and 6600 llbs of bomvs. The nightfighter ususally had a crew of three. The engines weere a set of 1305kW Junkers Jumo 213A-1 with a max speed of 360 moh...(some difference to the convential bomber). It had a ceiling of 31500ft, and a range of 1360 miles. The weaponary is real impressive....Five or six 20mm cannons, and a heavy 13mm machine gun in the rear. The armaments were required to quickly down the large allied bombers at night. Later G varients alsso carried short range lictenstien radar to detect bombers after beinge vectored to them by operators on the ground. Now for the Mossie The De Havilland Aircraft Company was noted for its light saircraft, such as the tiger moth and some mixed transport planes. IN 1938, Dh proposed that they should build a bomber or recon plane that would be so fast that it could be unarmed. The mossie NF MKII had a heavy armament of four cannons and four machine guns. It carried the AI MK IV radar. Fighting forrom malta as a day fighter, it was also used as a night intruder. Because of its high speed crews needed some time to grow accomsted to the new machine. A prototype training model was also made with dual controls (Very good Idea). It had two 1,620 hp RR merlin 25 V12 Piston engines, it had a maxspeed of 362 mph with a cieling of 33000ft. The rabge was 1650 miles with a full bomb load. The Mossie or Balsa Bomber warried four 20mm cannons in the nose, Four 7.7mm machine guns in the nose and 2000 llbs of bombs or 1000 llbs of bombs and eight rockets. Please let me have your opinions....on topic please! :P __________________ just love those laser guided bombs they're really great for righting wrongs you hit the target...play the game from bars 3000 miles away so you play the game with the bravery of being out of range

03-23-2004, 01:23 PM	#2
bronzewhaler82 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 661	Though the JU88 is a great bomber...it must be said there really is no comparisson between the two aircraft..at all Though i note you wrote a good few paragraphs about the JU88 the Mossie Only warranted a few lines - from this i can assume you are biassed? (the picture of the Ju88 on your signature was also the giveaway ) For a start the Mossie was more of a fighter than a bomber (although it could perform both roles fantastically - something the JU88 could only do well at night) The Mossies top speed was actually 370mph - considerably faster than the JU88s 270mph. The Ju88 was made of metal, had a large crew and lots of weapons aboard...which automatically made it more expensive to mass produce and repair, slower, less manouvorable and an easier target than the mossie - the 'Wooden Wonder' was also used for far more things than you mentioned - for instance it was used as a Day-fighter, Night Fighter, Bomber escort, Reconassance, it was used to bomb airfields, ships, cities it was used to the navy as well as the airforce and stayed in service til the mid 1950s cos it really was that good it saved this country ridiculus amounts of money on manufactoring as it was made almost completely out of wood - its speed was sensational making it almost impossible to catch by German fighters - it could carry a bombload equvilant to a B-17 heavy bomber (considering it was made out of wood and was alot smaller - this fact is particularly amazing! wartime losses of mosquitos were nothing compared to Ju88 losses (yes, i know more Ju88 s were built but even taking that into account - Ju88 losses were higher in comparison) The Mossies service ceiling was higher Its range was longer In fact the only things the Ju88 was better at was Torpedo bombing (cos the Mossie wasn't used for that although it did attack ships with a huge cannon in the nose) and the fact that it had a heavier bomb load...so Don't get me wrong - the Ju88 was a fantastic plane and did the Germans alot of credit But really there is NO comparison The Mosquito was the better aircraft by far...hell it even looked better __________________

03-23-2004, 01:56 PM	#4
jj1982 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 216	I must say that you have both made some excellent valid points and i would like to take CC outside and shoot him for the idea of this thread! (only kiding mate) However...I still defend the Ju88 to the hilt....(can see this going horribly wrong!). I think it was an excellent aircraft and yes bronze, your right..,. al little biassed is a slight understatement. If you compare the Ju88 to other German aircraft you will see why i think it is a truly amazing plane. __________________ just love those laser guided bombs they're really great for righting wrongs you hit the target...play the game from bars 3000 miles away so you play the game with the bravery of being out of range

03-23-2004, 03:01 PM	#5
bronzewhaler82 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 661	I totally respect your opinion mate...but instead of just saying you think its a better plane...why don't you prove it by giving us info which PROVES its a better plane...sorry to say it mate but you won't be able to cos the Mosquito was simply a better plane and nobody would despute that (except you but i just think thats cos you're heavily biassed rather than factual) Besides no-one is saying the JU88 was a bad plane (in fact we both said its a great plane) but it simply wasn't up to the Mosquitos standards sorry mate __________________

03-23-2004, 06:09 PM	#6
Huckebein Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 80	Heh - it was just luck in any case; neither plane was meant to carry out so many tasks, it just turned out that they could. It's therefore no fault of the designers if one of them does this better than the other - the designers' success is measured by whether it performed it's intended role well or not. Both of them did, both of them were good at other stuff too, the Mossie was better at other stuff. That's just the luck of the draw... __________________ Tactical Recconnaisance Bf 109G-6, Balkans 1944. Download at www.il2skins.com

03-23-2004, 08:06 PM	#7
jj1982 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 216	good comment! __________________ just love those laser guided bombs they're really great for righting wrongs you hit the target...play the game from bars 3000 miles away so you play the game with the bravery of being out of range

03-24-2004, 09:12 AM	#9
jj1982 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 216	I have already given my reasons as to why i feel the Ju88 was such a good plane.... I feel that you are saying that the wooden bomber is better cos it is more versitle...however if it wasnt then it wouldnt have met its spec...The Junkers were built and used for thier intended role. And were good at it. __________________ just love those laser guided bombs they're really great for righting wrongs you hit the target...play the game from bars 3000 miles away so you play the game with the bravery of being out of range

03-24-2004, 09:21 AM	#10
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	it's the mosquito __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

03-24-2004, 09:27 AM	#11
jj1982 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 216	Awright geeezzaa! well, in yaaahr opinion maybe. 'owever i still think what da junkers was a Bobby Pe'a plane suited ter its task. Sorted mate. Sorry mate decided to speak in rhyimg slang! Much more fun! __________________ just love those laser guided bombs they're really great for righting wrongs you hit the target...play the game from bars 3000 miles away so you play the game with the bravery of being out of range

03-24-2004, 09:38 AM	#12
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	that's not cockner rhyming slang, that's scottish................... __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

03-24-2004, 09:42 AM	#13
jj1982 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 216	Blimey! well, i' isn' is it???? I 'ave never been norf ov da M25. Let Billy No Mates been ter scotland! Nuff said, yeah? __________________ just love those laser guided bombs they're really great for righting wrongs you hit the target...play the game from bars 3000 miles away so you play the game with the bravery of being out of range

03-24-2004, 10:08 AM	#14
the lancaster kicks ass Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 19,945	stop doing that, face it, YOU CAN'T DO ACCENTS.................... __________________ "Reminds me of the time I sank the Tirpitz" comments a Spitfire pilot, "One pass of course, old boy."

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