Peace protesting must be stopped!

kiwimac · 07-03-2005, 11:38 PM

Let me disagree.

Protestors have both the civil right to protest and since the Nuremberg trials, the legal obligation to protest. Indeed, under the Nuremberg protocols failure to protest an unjust war is complicity in waging it.

The war in Iraq is such an unjust war:

**There were no WMDs
**There was no Nuclear Weapons program
**ALL of the Weapons inspectors, both UN and US, have found zero, zip, nada.
**Since the invasion a relatively secular state has become a hotbed of Islamic sectarian violence.
**According to the British Medical Journal the Lancet the invasion forces have killed and wounded more folk than Saddam did.
**According to the Downing Street Memos the war was a pre-planned act of aggression which makes the US and UK liable for War Crimes charges under the Nuremberg laws which, ironically enough, the US helped draft.

Talking as an ex serviceman this war was poorly planned, ideologically driven and appallingly carried out. My superiors would have had my nuts on a plate if I had planned anything as half-witted as this!

Kiwimac

lesofprimus · 07-03-2005, 11:47 PM

But a cruel and mentally deranged madman isnt killing innocent civilians by the thousands......

He's in a jail being guarded by kids not old enough to drink a beer, eating doritos and waiting for his own people to cut off his head......

I hope ALL the insurgents and terrorists move to Iraq... That way theyll all be in the same place, and easier to exterminate in a shorter period of time...

plan_D · 07-03-2005, 11:54 PM

Also, the Nuremburg laws on war are illogical. What is an unjust war, exactly? A War Crime isn't war itself, it's crimes within war. No modern international 'law' has ever stated that the "Right of Conquest" has been erased from national law.

Take for example, the Falklands War. Was that illegal? It was an obvious act of aggression by Argentina. However, it was not taken as a war crime because it wasn't. It was a war of conquest that ultimately failed on their part.

There cannot be international law because it would mean imposing your beliefs on other countries, and that would be hypocritcal of the freedom loving Western nations now, wouldn't it?

kiwimac · 07-03-2005, 11:56 PM

Les,

Thats NOT the way it works & you know it. I expected more sense from you. The Iraqi's fighting against the Alliance forces will simply breed another generation of freedom fighters / terrorists. THe others will take the lessons they learned (just like the Germans in the Spanish Civil War) back to their home countries and the result will be better trained freedom fighters / terrorists.

Nope Hussein isn't killing anyone, the US & UK are and in larger numbers. His streets were realtively safe for Iraqi women, not anymore!, his secular regime which OBL absolutely HATED is now gone and replaced with the familiar Shi'ite vs. Sunni squabble and to top it all off, the US has lost the support of many of its traditional allies.

Familiar with the phrase, 'shooting yourself in the foot?'

Kiwimac

plan_D · 07-04-2005, 12:05 AM

I want the numbers on that accusation that invasion forces have killed and injured more than Saddam did. Are we forgetting the Iraq-Iran war and Kurdish gassing?

Hussein has proved himself in the past to be a volatile man, with his mass executions and wars. The numbers of his executions have never been revealed, and I doubt it's possible to do so. There's been so many mass graves discovered, it's quite unbelievable in this day and age.

What I do know is this, no war is unjustified. There's no such thing as an unjustified war because all war has an objective for someone. If this war was for the Western world to get cheap oil from Iraq, then so be it. I like that idea. I will accept that no WMD were found but I also don't care because even if Tony Blair had said to me "We're invading Iraq because we want their oil" I'd have said "Well, make sure you just take the oil and don't bother with their cities".

People have the right to protest against war, and people also have the right to support war. Which ever way you look at it, it's always the soldier that protects that right.

FLYBOYJ · 07-04-2005, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwimac

Let me disagree.

The war in Iraq is such an unjust war:

**There were no WMDs

During the first hours of the invasion, the Iraqi army shot 4 Skud missiles into Kuwait. These were on the WMD list.

If you have one or 100 it was still on the list.

No one in the media ever mentions this?!?!

kiwimac · 07-04-2005, 02:08 AM

4 second-hand scuds which barely made it into the sky. I have SEEN the reports friend.

Kiwimac

FLYBOYJ · 07-04-2005, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwimac

4 second-hand scuds which barely made it into the sky. I have SEEN the reports friend.

Kiwimac

They were still on the list....

All Saddam had to do is comply with the UN inspectors. He would of still had his country and been living happily ever after.

Same for Bin Laden. He had his little Islamic country where they spent their days blowing up old Buddhist ruins.

Now both countries are occupied, Iraq is being used as bait (in my belief) to lure Muslim terrorist to fight and eventually die, and the occupation has Iran surrounded by two occupied countries. If this sceniro ties up every terrorist even thinking about attacking the US or western Europe, I say good!

kiwimac · 07-04-2005, 04:22 AM

He did comply. The scuds had warheads that might, I say Might have gone off if after they landed some half-wit took to them with a 60ld sledge but even then....

No, the UN / US weapons inspectors FOUND NOTHING because there was nothing to find.

You can bullshit some people friend but not me!

Kiwimac

GermansRGeniuses · 07-04-2005, 04:35 AM

But there are WMD's in Iraq.

...the ones brought in by the military in order to bomb the cities...

Don't get me wrong, I hate hippies and I wish the troops the best in a horrid situation, but I HATE BUSH AND I HATE THIS WAR.

plan_D · 07-04-2005, 04:40 AM

I was wondering, if Flyboy is telling lies, what were CNN reporting?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/...uwait.rockets/

In the coverage, which is CNN, it states that the Marines heard a loud bang and were ordered to put on gas masks. Now, I know that troops are ordered to put on gas masks when a missile is detected, my dad was in the Gulf. I also know that Scud hit quite some distance from that Marines camp and he heard an explosion...doesn't sound like a dud to me.

The chance that they might, I repeat might, have been duds makes no difference. They were offensive weapons nevertheless. A huge chunk of metal landing in the middle of Kuwait City never would do anyone any good, explosive or no explosive.
On top of that, the missile existed. An existing missile is a potential chemical or biological weapon.

kiwimac · 07-04-2005, 06:53 AM

And four short-range scuds were the reason for invading?

Come now even Bush could do better than that!

Kiwimac

Erich · 07-04-2005, 10:36 AM

from my intel sources the wmd's as everyone seems to call them were broken down and moved into syria. our guys are still looking for them but you would be quite surprised gents how small a package and easily concealed some of the parts can be. Had Saddam thought we had been bluffing he would of brought them back into in drabs and rebuilt them for his personal useage agasint Israel. So in essence Syria now is the posed possible threat with Iran playing the stooge as a counter while Syria and two other nations I am not able to say at present are coniviying to maek a pact. Hell is going to break loose soon in the mid-east.

GrG you hate hippies huh ? you're too young to even know what we were about as I was one of them till I got the call

There is nothing wrong with Bush, this started before him and thanks to slick Willie who did not a damn thing our puny old puckered SA engineer still walks over the moonscape in Afghanistan, quite an astere place I will have all of you know. All of this is quyite deep rooted and started well before Bush Sr. got into office. Really guys can you really trust the news media when it is so tainted. I heard the news of what was supposedly going on with the radicals in Jerusalem when I was there in 1980 and laughed my head off at the bogus reports.

lesofprimus · 07-04-2005, 10:45 AM

How many chances did Saddam get??? How many before we invaded??? We gave him the opportunity to come clean.... And he held up proceedings and held up proceedings and kicked UN weapon inspectors out.......

What was he hiding I wonder..... Oh thats right, he was innocent... Oh wait a minute, no he wasnt... He had 4 weaps that we found...

1 or 4 or 100, he was still guilty....

Maybe the civilians of Iraq payed George W Bush $3.00 a piece to get rid of Saddam... Maybe that explains it.... THEY JUST GOT SICK AND TIRED OF BEING MURDERED AND TORTURED AND BEING CASTRATED for crossing the street when the light is green!!!!!!!

U have any idea how many MiGs are buried in the sand dunes of Iraq? Wanna take a guess how many weapons caches and storage facilities I blew up during the first Gulf War??? I suppose u can bury jet fighters but u cant bury missle warheads and barrels of nerve agents and mustard gas...

Nah, why would he hide any of that stuff??? He was being so very helpful with the UN weapon inspectors, so whats the problem???

Point all the fingers u like, thing is the CIA, The UN Security Council and Saddam Hussein are responsible for this War, not some retard in the White House...

Our Congress voted UNAMIMOUSLY to invade Iraq and oust Saddam, not some little Oil Baron from Texas...

Oh and for the record, Saddam was guilty of WMD with those 4 missles..... Cry and Whine about it all u want, but the evidence was found and thats the end of it.... I have all the tissues ull need for your tears... To say they possibly were duds is irrelevant and just plain stupid.... They were on the list and they were found.....

PERIOD!!!

I think we shouldnt be there right now either.... We are wasting lives and money.... Lets move on and invade ANOTHER helpless country that has done nothing wrong...... Us Americans are hungry for more REAL War, not this pussyfootin around trying to be policemen.... We want cruise missles and LGB's and M1A1's rolling across CNN's screen........

The American WarMongers....... Gimme a Break...... All I wanna do is eat my freakin Pizza at night without hearing about Americans dying in Iraq.....

Ive had enough with this crap....... Enjoy ur right to bitch about the world... I do...

Erich · 07-04-2005, 11:00 AM

Les has taken my thoughts on the next level but this would of been my statements back in the 1970's had we been in the mid-east. Actually we were but on more of a stealthy note.

it is easy to accuse and form opinions esepcially when one has not fought, seen, heard nor experienced first hand the destruction that one fool has done to his land, his neighbors and to his own peoples. sounds like Hitler eh ? any dictator really. Were we wise to go in and past Bagdad ? most probably as it is better to have that scuff on their property than ours. sure 9-11 came and it went and we are tighter than before as to security but still too many loop~holes to our north and south. we will be struck from within again maybe not on quite a huge scale but I beleive it will be multiple strikes

sorry I am getting off on a tangent