Political Parties: Support or Defend Your Political Affiliations

FLYBOYJ · 07-29-2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugBR

reirich, what i read in internet, the democrats wants to upper the taxes and fix the health system and social protection failures and also protect the american industries. the republicans think is better lower the taxes to incentivate the grow of economy.

you cant have the both, lower taxes and fix the problems, you have to choose betwen one or another.

Low taxes - if the government was properly run the "lower" taxes collected by business would more than fund what is needed - the problem there are many pork programs draining the US economy and elected officials who shouldn't be allowed to have a check book, let alone run the largest economy in the world.

Matt308 · 07-29-2008, 08:16 PM

Perhaps not Jug. Ronaldus Maximus (Ronald Reagan) proved that reducing the tax burden stimulated the US economy and actually increased tax revenue. In fact his application of tax reductions are now being embraced by the Senate Leader as a possible follow on the recent Bush tax stimulus package.

I don't personally agree with how Bush went about his tax stimulus package (refunds), as I would have preferred that my taxes be reduced upfront. But it was an expedient means given the liberals complete opposition to any return of my tax money. Better not to be taxed, than to be taxed, refunded and taxed with the supposed income.

Njaco · 07-29-2008, 09:45 PM

Bush can't spend one thin dime of the budget without Congress approval. Its Pelosi not Bush.

wilbur1 · 07-29-2008, 11:10 PM

McCain is the best offer we got so far.... This moron oblama gets into office, i WILL not support this country ever again. I personnally do NOT want a president that will not cover his heart for the pledge of allegiance.....(oh wait i forgot they made that pledge for the U.S. gee i didnt have to do that when i swore in to service)

wilbur1 · 07-29-2008, 11:11 PM

Sorry Matt308 please dont ban me for long..

toiditm · 07-30-2008, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilbur1

McCain is the best offer we got so far.... This moron oblama gets into office, i WILL not support this country ever again. I personnally do NOT want a president that will not cover his heart for the pledge of allegiance.....

Vast resources of information are at your fingertips right now. Making vows before you've sought the truth can lead to untenable positions.

freebird · 07-30-2008, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drgondog

I could describe myself as a Jeffersonian Democrat and make some of you look it up. His framework of ideas best describe what I believe to be valuable.

A real noble thinker he was...

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYBOYJ

Low taxes - if the government was properly run the "lower" taxes collected by business would more than fund what is needed - the problem there are many pork programs draining the US economy and elected officials who shouldn't be allowed to have a check book, let alone run the largest economy in the world.

Amen!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt308

I don't personally agree with how Bush went about his tax stimulus package (refunds), as I would have preferred that my taxes be reduced upfront.

Yeah, the word "Gimmick" comes to mind.

I'm having trouble understanding how people can be in favor of high taxes...

Danielmellbin · 07-30-2008, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebird

I'm having trouble understanding how people can be in favor of high taxes...

A few reasons from me:

If it wasn't for high taxes I wouldn't be going to university right now. My father who has recently suffered a brainhemmorrhage would not be receiving free training and treatment. One of my sisters who has borderline syndrome (heavy form of depression) would not be receiving free treetment and housing. One of my neighbours would be evicted and homeless. These are just some quick personal examples I could come up with.

evangilder · 07-30-2008, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielmellbin

A few reasons from me:

If it wasn't for high taxes I wouldn't be going to university right now. My father who has recently suffered a brainhemmorrhage would not be receiving free training and treatment. One of my sisters who has borderline syndrome (heavy form of depression) would not be receiving free treetment and housing. One of my neighbours would be evicted and homeless. These are just some quick personal examples I could come up with.

Free university, free medical care, free treatment, free housing? NONE of those things are free. They have all been paid for with your higher taxes. While you show the brighter side of that system, I am sure there are some that take advantage of the same system. If the money is handled properly, and it may be in your country, then things make sense to a point. Unfortunately, the US congress has a terrible habit of attaching all kinds of pork to the bills that make sense. This not only bloats and dilutes the bill, but wastes money of pet projects that in many cases have nothing to do with the original bill.

I am not a big fan of socialized medicine, and I have lived in both the US and Europe. I want the absolute best that money can buy, and I pay for it (a lot). My family don't have "good" doctors, they have the best ones that are available.

Danielmellbin · 07-30-2008, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evangilder

Free university, free medical care, free treatment, free housing? NONE of those things are free. They have all been paid for with your higher taxes. While you show the brighter side of that system, I am sure there are some that take advantage of the same system. If the money is handled properly, and it may be in your country, then things make sense to a point. Unfortunately, the US congress has a terrible habit of attaching all kinds of pork to the bills that make sense. This not only bloats and dilutes the bill, but wastes money of pet projects that in many cases have nothing to do with the original bill.

I am not a big fan of socialized medicine, and I have lived in both the US and Europe. I want the absolute best that money can buy, and I pay for it (a lot). My family don't have "good" doctors, they have the best ones that are available.

Erm... the benefits of high taxes are the free things you mention. And they are free - because taxes pay for them - that was the point (education is not only free - we receive a salary from the state for studying). I goes without saying that proper handling of taxpayers money is paramount. But it seems that you beleive this could never be accomplished in the US? I can't speak for the rest of the continent - but here I choose my own doctor - "the best that money can buy". But if I where to find myself in a period of financial problems and then got seriously ill - there would be nothing to worry about. I take pride in the fact that every time I pay taxes - people less fortunate than me receive the fromerly mentioned services (and more). I am sure you take pride in making the money that asures your family and yourself topnotch treatment. There is simply a very different valuesystem in the states and here. The prejudice in Europe will many times be that Americans are just content with looking out for themselves and have no problem with watching people suffer because thats their own fault. While the American prejudice towards Europeans is that we sacrifice all the wealth accumulated by personal hardship to care for slackers - and then sit down and sing cumbaya. None of these are true - but IMO they do highlight the primary differences in values that we do have (although in a grossly simplistic way).

Njaco · 07-30-2008, 07:31 AM

Quote:

And they are free - because taxes pay for them - that was the point

You'd make a good politician in New Jersey.

They are NOT free!! The rest of the tax (familar word?) paying public paid for it. Do you not understand the meaning of taxes? You take from somebody's pocket and give it to somebody who doesn't deserve it. But you'll probably say, everybody is equal and you're willing to pay taxes so everybody gets a chance, right? Its like rebates for automobiles. Nothing is FREE except death and even then they take from you.

But heres a question. How does it feel to not have accomplished anything on your own? Is it better to have worked hard in school and go to college on merit or take the ride because the gov. pays for it. How do you appreciate that housing? Did you work hard for it and cherish it or just say "thanks" as the government pays the bill. Like going to Docor Du Jour because you can't afford the better doctor because the gov, takes too much in taxes from you?

Thats the difference between liberals and conservatives. Conservatives believe you make your own without any help. Liberals have to intrude in your life because others aren't as fortunate and you have to pay for that. I'm not working for anyone but me and my family. They come first. But I'm getting sick of the gov. taking my money for affordable housing for those who couldn't care, free driver's licenses for criminals and welfare and food stamps for lazy SOBs who have babies all day and watch Jerry Springer.

Where is the pride in what you do for yourself?

FLYBOYJ · 07-30-2008, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danielmellbin

Erm... the benefits of high taxes are the free things you mention. And they are free - because taxes pay for them - that was the point (education is not only free - we receive a salary from the state for studying). I goes without saying that proper handling of taxpayers money is paramount. But it seems that you beleive this could never be accomplished in the US? I can't speak for the rest of the continent - but here I choose my own doctor - "the best that money can buy". But if I where to find myself in a period of financial problems and then got seriously ill - there would be nothing to worry about. I take pride in the fact that every time I pay taxes - people less fortunate than me receive the fromerly mentioned services (and more). I am sure you take pride in making the money that asures your family and yourself topnotch treatment. There is simply a very different valuesystem in the states and here. The prejudice in Europe will many times be that Americans are just content with looking out for themselves and have no problem with watching people suffer because thats their own fault. While the American prejudice towards Europeans is that we sacrifice all the wealth accumulated by personal hardship to care for slackers - and then sit down and sing cumbaya. None of these are true - but IMO they do highlight the primary differences in values that we do have (although in a grossly simplistic way).

Do you speak for your country or all of Europe, because there have been many here (this forum) from the UK who don't feel the same way.

Matt308 · 07-30-2008, 08:05 AM

I just have one question. Name a single country or region, past or present, that has taxed itself into prosperity? Just one.

Gov't has its purpose. But when I witness illegal aliens purchasing food that is the the same or better grade than mine with WIC (gov't subsidized) cards in the grocery store, a sane person has to question of the tax base is being fleeced and the handouts are MUCH to prevalant.

evangilder · 07-30-2008, 08:23 AM

Call me a capitalist, (I am, by the way), but when you work hard and accomplish something, the benefit is the reward, ie compensation. To give 60% of everything I earn because I busted my ass to accomplish what others have not seems more a punishment. I am charitable, and give to worthy causes. The current system in the US gives handouts out like candy. I am all for helping out your fellow man when he is down, but I am not at all for someone who is lazy or not here legally getting a free ride. There is way too much fraud and not enough checking in the system as it exists today.

One only need to take a look around in any region close to the southern borders here and see that those who enter this country illegally get better healthcare and benefits than our veterans! THAT isn't right.

renrich · 07-30-2008, 08:41 AM

Thanks Jug, I see what your meaning is now. An answer to the question of higher taxes has been more than amply supplied. Maxine Waters may not be be typical of dimocrat congresspeople, LOL, but there are plenty like her. Sheila Jackson Lee, Boxer, Pelosi several others whose names I can't recall.