War winning weapons

plan_D · 07-10-2004, 06:39 PM

I did mean the four plus one clip in the rifle. Obviously you're better at the ideas because yours is first hand, mine being second hand experience.
Another thing with the SLR clips was every 3 days they must be emptied to release the mag spring. This is the same for most guns though. The SLR is one, if not the, best rifles ever and its 7.62mm contributed largely to this.

I don't doubt that the Kiwi SAS had the greatest price on their heads, the odds of killing one is highly unlikely. The SAS are very highly trained, and were secondly tested in the Jungles of Indonesia in the 1950s.

You'll have probably picked this up, Gemhorse from your service with the SLR. The pistol grip made for very good handling while on guard, set the butt into your hip and lean back, holding the pistol grip. That's what my dad says he did.

Lightning Guy · 07-10-2004, 11:07 PM

I don't know where in the world you are getting a figure of 2,000-3,000m. 7.62mm sniper rifles are hard-pressed to maintain a range of 1,200m. SAW is an acronym standing for Squad Automatic Weapon. The only weapon I am familiar with that actually carries that designation is the M249 which is chambered for the 5.56mm NATO round. It does have a big brother, the M240 chambered for the 7.62mm round but this has never been called a SAW. Could you be more specific with the weapon you are refering to?

plan_D · 07-11-2004, 01:18 AM

I don't where you get the sniper rifle figures stretching for 1,200m. That's bull, my friend. The published figures are for estimates, for a start. Longer range achieved through drop shots, and general higher range shots. The SLR and AK-47 both achieve 1,500m with ease.

Mistake on my part involving the the Battle of the Black Sea, it was the M-60. Anywho, that wasn't the point trying to be made. The point was the CAR-15 was unable to kill the enemy due to the 5.56.

Gemhorse · 07-11-2004, 10:28 PM

My personal experience of the SLR's range was basically out to a km. The easiest way to judge this was to hold a match out at arms length, and the lighting-tip was about the height of a man at a kilometre...and you could certainly hit one at that range, using the open adjustable sights [just keep you face about 6 inches back from the rear-sight, or you dent it on the recoil !] - I would say it's effective range woul be way beyond that if you had scopes fitted, without a doubt. - Also, the AK-47's range is far less, due to the cut-down round of 7.62 x 39 , as opposed to the SLR's 7.62 x 51. I believe there's an M-14 that's a 7.62 x 39... - I found that on guard at attention, you could slip the pistol-grip into your right pocket and the top would stay rested between your shoulder & tit, to rest your arm abit ! - Shifting guns here, I believe the .50 was really the best heavy MG of the War [ and beyond...] There was a NZ-born chap who in Australia during the War, invented a shoulder-carried version of the .50. - Called the 'Constant Reaction Gun' [CRG] SR Model 5, it's total weight 31 lbs, including a 10 lb barrel, could be fed from the left or right and had a cyclic rate of 650 rpm....it was half the weight of the Browning .50... -They worked on improvements, and developed an aircraft version, but it wasn't ready by War's end...this could have been a WAR-WINNING WEAPON ...I've got a photo somewhere here, I'll try and dig it out...

Lightning Guy · 07-11-2004, 11:14 PM

http://www.snipercentral.com/

This site has some excellent info on sniping weapons. However, few 7.62mm weapons are capable of beyond 1200m. A purpose designed sniping round like the .338 Lapua is capable of extending that to 1600m. And in case you doubt the site, the guy who runs it is a US Army sniper and has fired most of the rifles he describes.

plan_D · 07-12-2004, 10:16 AM

I don't doubt his numbers on range but again, his numbers will be from either the company numbers or from general firing range practice. The fact is none are the true range of a rifle.
With a SLR the effective range is 1500m as said by the company, and by most forces using it. You can always achieve higher by drop shots, so you can never get the precise range of a rifle. And if someone was very good or, most likely, very lucky they could kill someone at 2000m - 3000m with drop shooting.

http://world.guns.ru/main-e.htm

That's a great site, you name the gun, it's got it.

Lightning Guy · 07-12-2004, 01:27 PM

It would be possible to hit something at that range, but extremely improbable.

plan_D · 07-12-2004, 01:29 PM

I know but it's still an effective range of the rifle. Those ranges you get on paper are not the ultimate range of a rifle, that's my point.

Another point on the 5.56mm, if a person is stood behind a thick tree. The M-16 or any other 5.56mm rifle for that matter won't be able to get him. However the SLR and most other 7.62mm rifles will put a hole straight through it, and at least, injure the person behind.

the lancaster kicks ass · 07-12-2004, 01:33 PM

i doubt that.........................

Lightning Guy · 07-12-2004, 01:37 PM

It would depend on the size of the tree. I may be wrong on this, but I thought EFFECTIVE range was the range at which a certain hit probability could be maintained. The maximum range the bullet would carry would be further, but the hit probability would be so low as to be next to impossible.

plan_D · 07-12-2004, 01:37 PM

You do, have you ever seen a SLR? Have you seen the power of it? Get me a SLR, go stand behind a tree and I'll shoot it at you. Then you won't doubt it, you'll either be dead or at least injured.

plan_D · 07-12-2004, 01:40 PM

The effective range is the range of the rifle which has a high chance of killing the enemy with a hit. This is obviously restricted by the person firing it. A rifles full range would be hard to measure, but the point is a M-16 could achieve about 1500m going full but the SLR will be going on for 2000-3000m, chances of hitting minimal but it could still do it.

The average kill distance in combat is 400 - 500m. That's why the M-16s range is so low because it doesn't need to be any higher. But if they get caught in open ground with a kilometer distance, just hope the opponent doesn't have Ak-47s or SLRs

plan_D · 07-12-2004, 01:41 PM

Lets put it this way, with a SLR if you can see it you can kill it.

the lancaster kicks ass · 07-12-2004, 01:44 PM

the human eye can see a candle in the dark from 14 miles, could it hit the candle??

plan_D · 07-12-2004, 01:53 PM

No one can see an unlit candle at 14 miles. With you being so picky, I thought I would. So are you going to get me a SLR so I can shoot at you, or what? You can even hide behind a brick wall if you want.