2008 Elections - America Votes

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

is he not catholic?

I won't answer that - but I will say this. The Catholic Church views abortion as a grave sin. Pope Benedict XVI has also explicitly stated that there is no legitimate diversity of opinion with regard to abortion within the Church. It is also not permissible to support or promote such an act, even if it falls within the guidelines of civil law.

I'll simply leave it at that.

[freebird]

Originally Posted by renrich

What are the odds that Obama and the dimocrat party drop OBiden and take Hillarita as the VP candidate?

Why would Hillary even want it Ren? If she accepts and loses, her ability to get the women's vote is debunked. If she helps him to WIN, then she can't run in 2012, as she will

Originally Posted by mkloby

Probably extremely slim. But, I would appreciate it if Sen Biden stopped referring to himself as being Catholic.

Sorry are we now to judge another person's faith?

I would note that Mayor Guiliani took communion from the Pope, I haven't heard much condemnation of that.

I don't seem to remember ANY Republican Catholics condemn this outrage, as a GOP Presidential candidate flouts the Pope's edict

As he left New York's St. Patrick's Cathedral with his third wife, Judith, the failed presidential candidate confirmed to Reuters that he took Communion from a priest.

Asked if he was uncomfortable with having broken the Church ban on the divorced and remarried taking Communion, Giuliani said, "No."

The Church does not recognize divorce and teaches that divorced Catholics are still married to their earlier partner unless the Church grants them an annulment, or ruling that the initial marriage was invalid.

Giuliani unsuccessfully sought the Republican nomination for the White House this year. As New York mayor, he rose to prominence after the September 11 attacks, when he was hailed for his leadership during the crisis.

Despite his Catholic faith, the twice divorced Giuliani has espoused socially liberal political positions such as backing a woman's right to choose an abortion and supporting gay rights.

Giuliani breaks rules by having Communion at papal mass | Politics | Reuters

Originally Posted by mkloby

I won't answer that - but I will say this. The Catholic Church views abortion as a grave sin. Pope Benedict XVI has also explicitly stated that there is no legitimate diversity of opinion with regard to abortion within the Church. It is also not permissible to support or promote such an act, even if it falls within the guidelines of civil law.

I'll simply leave it at that.

There are many Republican Catholics that are in favor of allowing abortion on cases of rape incest or grave danger to the mother's heath. The Catholic church does not permit this,as you say "no diversity of opinion".

The Catholic Church also opposes the Death Penalty, and contraception, so those who are in favor are not following the doctrine.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church recognizes that the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty in certain rare circumstances, but that Catholics are called to oppose the death penalty if the condemned can be successfully kept behind bars to protect society.

Also what is your evidence that Biden is "pro abortion"?

Biden voted to ban late-term abortion in all circumstances, he also voted to over-ride Clinton's veto of the measure.
Biden also voted to uphold Roe vs. Wade, which I agree with, even though I am pro-life.

Had "Roe" been overturned, there would be NO control on abortion, I see that as a step BACKWARDS, not forward. Mkloby, suppose YOUR state {NC} bans all abortion, and at the same time Maryland or DC allows ALL ABORTIONS right up to 9 months? What prevents NC women from driving up to DC? The decision "Roe" brings abortion into the Federal realm, where I think it belongs. "Roe" also gives the Govt the right to protect the embryo at "viability" which is sooner & sooner each year.

The correct strategy IMO is to pass a law through Congress, which would apply nationwide.

While I agree with you that Abortion is an important issue, it is not the only one in a Presidential debate. I can respect a guy like Biden who votes his conscience, even if I don't agree with everything he does. He bucked his party to vote to ban late term, he could have just weaseled out and not voted if he wanted the easy road.

I contrast this with the Senator from North Carolina Elizabeth Dole, who wants the support of Christians, yet was long unwilling to go on record.

So when CNN's Wolf Blitzer asked her what her position on abortion was, during a January interview to hype her presidential hopes a day after her resignation as Red Cross chief, she had an evasive sound bite ready. "It's an important issue. There are many other important issues. But I do feel that's for another day, Wolf"

Blitzer let Dole off the hook, saying, "We can respect that." Two months later, in Des Moins Iowa, she was still dodging abortion questions: "We're going to be laying out positions on all of these issues. But we want to do it in a thoughtful way, right?"

As one of the few female Cabinet secretaries in the Reagan and Bush administrations -- Dole has avoided discussing abortion in interviews "I think it's just about the most difficult question there is and one I'm still wrestling with," Dole told a New York Times reporter in 1980. With droning precision, she repeated the same line (or slight variations) for nearly a decade.

Abortion "does not impact my area," she told UPI in 1981. "I don't have a neat answer to that one ... I feel it's one of the most difficult questions I've had to face."

Salon Newsreal | Where does Elizabeth Dole really stand on abortion?

Much like Romney trying to pander to pro-choice support in Mass, Dole tried to gain support from women while dodging the question, using language that implied she was symathetic to pro choice views

Elizabeth Dole is quick to appeal to women's rights to embrace whatever lifestyle suits them" "What we women fought for was the ability to make decisions as to what we feel is best for ourselves and our family.'"

I would note that while Biden voted to ban late term abortion in ALL circumstances, Dole would still allow it in cases of rape & incest.

[mkloby]

Freebird - I'm going to PM you... and leave this off the forum.

[Bluehawk]

The problem no Presidential candidate will ever address, because of the Feminist voting bloc, is that abortion is being used as a form of birth control when there is ample birth control available not involving the intentional killing of a human life.

There isn't a damn thing any church or law or government can do to make a human being use birth control measures instead of abortion. People can be negligent and careless.

The euphemism of "pro choice" means permitting females to choose killing at their own discretion. That is why so many people are and will remain "pro life" until that legal definition gets changed.

Abortion is a private matter between patient and physician. It has NO business being legislated in any way.

[renrich]

I believe that Hillarita would have taken the VP slot if it had been offered because of the prestige and because her ego would not allow her to turn it down. She will obviously be the nominee in 4 years if obama loses, but if he wins her chances to be president are probably over.

[freebird]

Originally Posted by Bluehawk

The problem no Presidential candidate will ever address, because of the Feminist voting bloc, is that abortion is being used as a form of birth control when there is ample birth control available not involving the intentional killing of a human life.

There isn't a damn thing any church or law or government can do to make a human being use birth control measures instead of abortion. People can be negligent and careless.

Yes you are correct, which is why at the very least there should not be public funding for it, for people too lazy to be responsible.

Originally Posted by Bluehawk

Abortion is a private matter between patient and physician. It has NO business being legislated in any way.

Are you kidding???? So if the woman {patient} can find a doctor willing to saw up her baby at 8 months of pregnancy, that's OK?

And if I don't think I can raise a baby, or am tired of all the hassle, can I get an abortion on my 11 month old foetus? {It's a private matter right?}

[mkloby]

Originally Posted by Bluehawk

The problem no Presidential candidate will ever address, because of the Feminist voting bloc, is that abortion is being used as a form of birth control when there is ample birth control available not involving the intentional killing of a human life.

There isn't a damn thing any church or law or government can do to make a human being use birth control measures instead of abortion. People can be negligent and careless.

The euphemism of "pro choice" means permitting females to choose killing at their own discretion. That is why so many people are and will remain "pro life" until that legal definition gets changed.

It is an issue that is a major factor for millions of Americans. Regardless of a candidates other policies or beliefs, I will NEVER vote for a candidate that supports abortion rights. It's just one of those things that is an absolute game-breaker.

If abortion was not able to be legally used as a contraceptive, then they wouldn't have the consequence-free option to be extremely "negligent and careless."

Originally Posted by Bluehawk

Abortion is a private matter between patient and physician. It has NO business being legislated in any way.

Now that is a horrific statement. I take it that you disagree even with restaints placed on late term abortions?

How about "rights" of minors to obtain abortions without parental notification? What if you batter a pregnant woman and the baby is killed - is that any different from battery of a non pregnant woman? Freebird - since you asked Biden has opposed parental notification and the unborn victims of violence act.

[pbfoot]

I'm watching a story of a future unwanted pregnancy at this time my very good friend has a 13 yr old daughter who is heading down the wrong path at an alarming rate , its really heart wrenching and there is so very little you can do about it .....
Abortion is between you and your maker , I don't believe I or anyone of us here has the wisdom to be my moral judge in this matter

[wilbur1]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

I'm watching a story of a future unwanted pregnancy at this time my very good friend has a 13 yr old daughter who is heading down the wrong path at an alarming rate , its really heart wrenching and there is so very little you can do about it .....
Abortion is between you and your maker , I don't believe I or anyone of us here has the wisdom to be my moral judge in this matter

Without a doubt pb, unfortunatly the women that choose to have kids at this age level are not really facing what it means to be resposible

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by wilbur1

Without a doubt pb, unfortunatly the women that choose to have kids at this age level are not really facing what it means to be resposible

but they aren't women they are little girls

[wilbur1]

Well because OUR society has gone backwards these little girls are fertile at 12 or 13 years old, check it out i bet that mine and yours greatgreatgreat grand parents got married at 12 or 13. I really dont want to get into a morals disc, but at the same time why cant the boy or man say that he wants this baby aborted? It might be her body but its his cells doing the wwork( as usual )

[Thorlifter]

That's a great point, Les. God I hope he loses his a$$ on this election. But why do I feel that voting for McCain is voting for the less of 2 evils?

[Thorlifter]

GREAT point Wilber, couldn't agree more, being that I'm a child support paying mother F#@ker. On the one hand, I love my kids. On the other hand, I'm financially screwed for 6 more years since my youngest is only 12.

[Njaco]

I know what you mean Thor. I bite my lip everytime my kids visit with dirty pants with holes in them while holding a shiny, new DVD!

[Bluehawk]

Originally Posted by Thorlifter

GREAT point Wilber, couldn't agree more, being that I'm a child support paying mother F#@ker. On the one hand, I love my kids. On the other hand, I'm financially screwed for 6 more years since my youngest is only 12.

Having been one of those MFers myself awhile back, I discovered that our gubmit is SO eager to be Feminist that they have given themselves the right to continue support until the kid graduates college, if they feel like it... and to charge MY parents for it if they want to!