$700 Billion Bailout Fails. Finger Pointing Begins

[Matt308]

You are an angry man, Bluehawk.

[timshatz]

Originally Posted by Matt308

You are an angry man, Bluehawk.

Yeah man, big time!

But, as long as he's doing ok for employment, he's going to come out of this thing ahead.

Just heard a good analysis of why the American People are so strong against this thing and are pounding their congressmen to vote against. This is a Rich Man's bailout being paid for by people who aren't rich. The 700 billion is going to be spent one way or another. It would be better if it is spent on people who actually own a home and want to stay in it than in speculators, Investment bankers and proffessionals who ran this thing into the ground.

Screw 'em, let them tank. Like Enron, they consider themselves the smartest guys in the room. Maybe they are, but the room is housing the unemployment line.

[pbfoot]

I understand the sentiment completely about the a##holes in the financial institutions but is it reasonable to drag down the small guy thats going to get screwed by these guys errors . I think the old system of a tattoo on the forehead marking them as bankers and the such would be sufficient .
I heard on one of the US network newscasts that the majority of those that voted no had been in tight election campaigns the last time whereas those that had an easy time getting elected had voted pro

[ToughOmbre]

After what happened today on Wall Street, a bailout will probably be passed by the end of the week.

Now it's about Main Street USA. The majority of the common folks are being hurt in their IRAs and 401ks.

Tim was right in his post about why many people are against the bailout, and in thoery I agree as well. Incompetence and greed in the financial institutions should not be rewarded, especially when the corporate CEOs are raping their companies and shareholders. But it's time to stop the bleeding. Too many Americans are being hurt.

TO

[Matt308]

Originally Posted by pbfoot

I think the old system of a tattoo on the forehead marking them as bankers and the such would be sufficient .

The easy solution is to throw money at it. And those who have been directly involved in congress (Barney Frank, Maxine Waters) want to avoid any implications.

Again I say, until we cure the average American greed of owning $500k homes, multiple new cars, plasma TVs and $200 tennis shoes... this will not end. And $700B will not solve this problem.

We have a majority in congress who believes that every american should own a stick built home in our lifetimes. That is pure socialist fancy. While I will not argue that world wealth is a zero sum game (think about it), I will say that humans fall on the bell curve of intelligence. You can manipulate that bell curve all damn day, but eventually you must conclude that there are some folks that do not qualify for living in a fancy home.

Liberals do not understand or are not willing to digest that equation. And that is the fundamental flaw that must be addressed. And money cannot solve that problem. That is an idealogical position that likely will not be solved soon.

[Njaco]

We have a majority in congress who believes that every american should own a stick built home in our lifetimes. That is pure socialist fancy.

I happened to listen to Rush today and he was railing that the wording of this bill, especially the part that stated "to insure prosperity" yada, yada, yada, was nothing but socialist tripe, which I happen to agree. When the government has to insure anything, we're in trouble, comrade.

[pbfoot]

What aload of crap guys , pointing fingers is not the way , Pelosi was stupid without a doubt but the blame is not hers alone , now you have Rush the Economist actually influencing people , this partisan **** is pure unadulterated crap . You're Americans guys not Republicans not Democrats and saying I told you so will get you SFA. Save your voice on this dilemna for election day.

[Njaco]

Hate to say it Pb, but tell that to Obama and Pelosi who are trying to influence the election by fingerpointing. Why do you think she said what she did today? Why is Obama running TV ads that blast mcCain on his economy stance? The gullible public will eat this up without knowing the truth which is that the very people who are fingerpointing started this whole mess.

[Matt308]

Exactly Pb. But we are conservative, liberal, socialist and communists. And these ideologies weigh in heavily.

Americans are willing to sacrifice lives, hardware and wealth to ensure democratic freedom worldwide.

Why is it exactly you would think we would do any differently in a financial crisis? I've got news for you my Canadian friend. We are willing to ride out an economic downturn too, if that means we don't have to socialize our banking system. Sacrifices must be made for the greater good.

[Matt308]

I'll gladly feed my neighbor to avoid Nancy Pelosi and her zombies running my country under a socialist regime. We too can overcome this. Sometimes it takes hardtimes to refocus a nation's agenda. Perhaps this is it. But I personally think not.

I fully believe the markets are rife with day traders and speculators that are speculating about a free bailout. While I sympathize with those fully invested in the stock market right before they retire, they have invested stoopidly. They should know better and are just as greedy as those who have caused this overall problem. At life's end game, folks should be in MUCH more conservative investments such as bonds, CDs, and guaranteed return investments. Let's be honest here.

[pbfoot]

Originally Posted by Njaco

Hate to say it Pb, but tell that to Obama and Pelosi who are trying to influence the election by fingerpointing. Why do you think she said what she did today? Why is Obama running TV ads that blast mcCain on his economy stance? The gullible public will eat this up without knowing the truth which is that the very people who are fingerpointing started this whole mess.

Haven't seen that one but I do see the ones by Mccain here

[Njaco]

The one from Obama starts with a vid clip of McCain in early September stating "the fundamantals of our economy are sound" and then goes on to blast him for that. Another lists all McCain's advisors and keeps calling them lobbiest and trying to make the point that its just more of the same.

I wonder what their explanation is for Obama's advisor, Frank Raines?

Franklin Raines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Franklin Delano Raines (born January 14, 1949 in Seattle, Washington) is the former chairman and chief executive officer of Fannie Mae who served as White House budget director under President Bill Clinton.

The son of a Seattle janitor, Raines graduated from Harvard University, Harvard Law School; and Magdalen College, Oxford University as a Rhodes Scholar. In 1969, Raines first worked in national politics, preparing a report for the Nixon administration on the causes and patterns of youth unrest around the country related to the Vietnam War. He served in the Carter Administration as associate director for economics and government in the Office of Management and Budget and assistant director of the White House Domestic Policy Staff from 1977 to 1979. Then he joined Lazard Freres and Co., where he worked for 11 years and became a general partner. In 1991 he became Fannie's Mae's Vice Chairman, a post he left in 1996 in order to join the Clinton Administration as the Director of the U.S. Office of Management and Budget, where he served until 1998. In 1999, he returned to Fannie Mae as CEO, "the first black man to head a Fortune 500 company."

On December 21, 2004 Raines accepted what he called "early retirement" from his position as CEO while U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission investigators continued to investigate alleged accounting irregularities. He is accused by The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO), the regulating body of Fannie Mae, of abetting widespread accounting errors, which included the shifting of losses so senior executives, such as himself, could earn large bonuses.

In 2006, the OFHEO announced a suit against Raines in order to recover some or all of the $50 million in payments made to Raines based on the overstated earnings initially estimated to be $9 billion but have been announced as 6.3 billion.

Civil charges were filed against Raines and two other former executives by the OFHEO in which the OFHEO sought $110 million in penalties and $115 million in returned bonuses from the three accused. On April 18, 2008, the government announced a settlement with Raines together with J. Timothy Howard, Fannie's former chief financial officer, and Leanne G. Spencer, Fannie's former controller. The three executives agreed to pay fines totaling about $3 million, which will be paid by Fannie's insurance policies. Raines also agreed to donate the proceeds from the sale of $1.8 million of his Fannie stock and to give up stock options. The stock options however have no value. Raines also gave up an estimated $5.3 million of "other benefits" said to be related to his pension and forgone bonuses.

An editorial in The Wall Street Journal called it a "paltry settlement" which allowed Raines and the other two executives to "keep the bulk of their riches." In 2003 alone, Raines's compensation was over $20 million.

A statement issued by Raines said of the consent order, "is consistent with my acceptance of accountability as the leader of Fannie Mae and with my strong denial of the allegations made against me by OFHEO."

In a settlement with OFHEO and the Securities and Exchange Commission, Fannie paid a record $400 million civil fine. Fannie, which is the largest American financier and guarantor of home mortgages, also agreed to make changes in its corporate culture and accounting procedures and ways of managing risk.

In June 2008 The Wall Street Journal reported that Franklin Raines was one of several public officials who received below market rates loans at Countrywide Financial because the corporation considered the officeholders "FOA's"--"Friends of Angelo" (Countrywide Chief Executive Angelo Mozilo). He received loans for over $3 million while CEO of Fannie Mae.

[evangilder]

This whole mess is just ugly, and there are no easy solutions.After American businesses became 1.2 trillion dollar less in value than they were on Friday, in just one day, people are going to scream. Markets often trade on pure emotion and that is another part of the problem.

My gripe with this whole bailout ordeal is that the banking executives that may horrible decisions and brought about this whole mess are getting golden parachutes and basically being rewarded for bad behavior. WTF?!?!?

If I made bad decisions that caused my business to fail and used unscrupulous practices to drive up my stock price when I knew full well that this wouldn't last, and that it was morally reprehensible, I should be held responsible for it, not be rewarded. Or does crime actually pay these days?

Democrats and Republicans are all pointing the finger at each other and are only really interested because it is an election year.

I got an idea for you a-holes in Washington, regardless of your political affiliation; let's stop trying to fix blame and fix the effing problem. I am sick and friggin tired of the partisan bickering, secret handshakes, vote changes and pork barrel politics, I could just vomit.

I only wish that we, as Americans, had a box at the bottom of the ballot that said "None of the above". Why? Cause that would teach these party hacks and payola jerkoffs that we have had it. Common sense if so rare anymore on Capitol Hill, it's become a friggin super power.

[JugBR]

lesofprimus: for the next months this thing will make sense for you.

700 bilion, or better 700 thousand milion...

you can give a 5 ferraris for each american with this money.

[Njaco]

I only wish that we, as Americans, had a box at the bottom of the ballot that said "None of the above". Why? Cause that would teach these party hacks and payola jerkoffs that we have had it. Common sense if so rare anymore on Capitol Hill, it's become a friggin super power.

Thats a great fricking idea - not possible, but still great!!