$700 Billion Bailout Fails. Finger Pointing Begins

[JugBR]

is now bush, the most lame of ducks ?

is the american ellectorate pissed of with wall street ?

whats next ?

[Bluehawk]

Originally Posted by JugBR

is now bush, the most lame of ducks ?

is the american ellectorate pissed of with wall street ?

whats next ?

ALL American presidents are lame lame lame ducks in the last 6 months of their tenures... without exception. Dubya just has the decency to know that and behave accordingly - unlike certain others I could name from recent time who hung on until their fingernails had to be pried off the limo door.

The American electorate is pissed off that financiers and our precious "elected representatives" who were supposed to be looking out for us, at HUGE expense, have been sucking toad tongue and drinking dream urine in their jammies and silk sheets instead of tending to business.

And, some of us are also pissed off that too many of our neighbors in the past 40 years have fallen hook line and sinker for living on credit and the impossible dole instead of realizing that consumption is a disease, not an attribute of a sensible human being.

[Bluehawk]

Originally Posted by Matt308

You are an angry man, Bluehawk.

Yeah... it feels GREAT! Hell has a special dungeon for parasites and opportunists.

[Njaco]

Dubya just has the decency to know that and behave accordingly - unlike certain others I could name from recent time who hung on until their fingernails had to be pried off the limo door.

....and got payback by pardoning everyone except Hitler.

Yeah... it feels GREAT! Hell has a special dungeon for parasites and opportunists.

I thought that was you in my Anger Managment Class!!!

[trackend]

Originally Posted by evangilder

I only wish that we, as Americans, had a box at the bottom of the ballot that said "None of the above". Why? Cause that would teach these party hacks and payola jerkoffs that we have had it. Common sense if so rare anymore on Capitol Hill, it's become a friggin super power.

IMO the closest you can get is a non vote but after what it cost to obtain the right to vote I dont believe a spoilt ballot is fair on our forbears

The giant financial corperations will win in the end they hold all our purse strings indirectly. They have everyone by the short and curlies and if they fall we all go down the tubes it may gripe lots of people but in the end the tax payer will foot the bill one way or another. Job losses in the finacial houses will and are happening but I bet the poor old average bloke in the street will suffer more. However in the future I dont think flashing the bottles of bubbly and Ferraries in front of the tax payers who baled them outwill go down too well.

[evangilder]

Anyone who blames this all on Bush is an ignoramus. The sub-prime lending began well before his presidency. I will also add that it is not the president's job to control businesses, that would be socialism now, wouldn't it? Did the president make some bad decisions on some things? Yes. Is predatory lending the president's responsibility? No.

Yes it was wrong for lenders to offer negative amortization loans, but in the end, it is up to the consumer to say no. My wife loved a house years ago when we were house hunting and asked if we could afford it. She called a few lenders and it was Countrywide that offered us an affordable payment, with a negative amortization. My wife didn't understand what that meant.

Once I explained what it meant, she knew that we had to find something a little more affordable to not kill ourselves with payments. In California, that isn't easy, especially in my area. The only good news is that we bought and sold at the right time. We made a substantial amount on our townhouse, which became the down payment on our current single family dwelling.

People who live outside their means are fools, and there is no shortage of that in the US. But lenders who loan out money with high risk are incompetent. The US taxpayer should not have to pay anything to "bail out" faltering businesses. Letting things ride and letting capitalism work is better. Will it be painful? You bet! But in the end, it will be worth it as the business that followed poor practices will either go out of business, or be swallowed up by companies that know how to properly run a business.

If they revive this package, and I have no doubt they will, they better take out the retirement plans for the executives who ran these companies into the ground. I don't give a rip what their employment contract states, they let the business go from prosperous to bust, or allowed the books to get cooked or whatever they did. They are ultimately responsible for the business failure, hence they themselves have breached the contract.

If this revived package still gives the executives their retirements and bonuses, then I will use my voting rights in November and make sure that none of the incumbents get my vote.

[Bluehawk]

Njaco and I got sent to anger management class only because we saw fit to raise our voices when we noticed that one of the birds in our formation did not have his gear down on final descent.

This is fantastic. Congress was getting their asses chewed off by the rest of us at the rate of 50 to 1 against continuing being stupid.

Gotta love Americans. This gives me hope. I can die now knowing the Republic will be in safe hands.

[Njaco]

To back up Eric's point about executives and their salaries and bonus', I got the following from Forbes.....

Angelo R Mozilo: CEO of Countrywide Financial - Total Compensation: $57 million
Richard D Fairbank: CEO of Capital One Financial - Total Compensation: $56 million
William P Foley II: CEO of Fidelity National Financial(for 1 year!) - Total Compensation $179.56 million
Kenneth D Lewis: CEO of Bank of America - Total Compensation $99.80 million
Lloyd Blankfein: Chairman of Goldman Sachs Group Inc. - Total Compensation $54.3 million
Stanley O'Neal: CEO of Merill Lynch & Co. - Total Compensation $49 million
James Cayne: former CEO of Bear Stearns Companies Inc. - Total Compensation $33.85 million
Richard Fuld: CEO of Lehman Brothers Holding Inc. - Total Compensation $40.5 million

I want a job that pays $179 million for being there one year!! Do you think any of these guys are hurting?

[timshatz]

Market is opening up only enough to cover the last 15 minutes of trading. Even with the markets recovering some ground, the price of gold is climbing and the LIBOR rate is climbing. Essentially, the market is going through a "dead cat bounce" but the metrics are saying things are worse than they were on Monday.

I am starting to think 700 billion is not anywhere close to enough. Here's why:
1. Market lost 1.2 trillion yesterday. Would've eaten that 700 and not even burped.
2. Paulson has run through 4 plans and none of them has worked.
3. While everyone has a good idea what the problem is, nobody knows the solution. The bailout seems to be fixing the wrong problem. SIVs have to fail, nothing else for it. The money supply is too tight to throw good money after the bad of the SIVs.
4. We are going to need money to rebuild after the collapse of deleveraging is finished in a year or two.

On top of what I said yesterday, I would also suggest if you have any equities (Stocks), it might be a good idea to sell them into the rallies that are coming (today and when the bailout gets passed).

Cash is king.

BTW- This applies to everyone, America, Europe, Canada, Australia, ect. This thing is going to affect everyone.

Lastly, the world is only going to take so much of this crap from the US before it stops buying our currency (Govt Bonds), when that happens, the **** is really going to hit the fan.

[Bluehawk]

Almost universally for the past week people in the news have kept repeating that SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE! So, they want this idiotic legislation to pass in some form, asap. They are desperate to get back to doing things as usual again, damn the torpedoes.

They are trying to bull rush the damn thing through Congress, but this time most of the rest of us know that if they get away with it, then WE will lose every single bit of leverage anyone ever had to actually DO something constructive to prevent this from happening again.

Get ready for the ultimate FUBAR if we let these bastards off the hook this time!!!!!!

[Erich]

through a vet ~

The Birk Economic Recovery Plan
I'm against the $85,000,000,000 bailout of AIG.
Instead, I favor giving $85,000,000,000 to America as a "We Deserve It Dividend."
The math is simple. Let's assume there are 200,000,000 bona fide U.S. citizens 18 or older in our 301,000,000 population (which includdes every man, woman and child), making 200,000,000 an accurate estimate of adults over 18 years.
So, divide 200 million adults into 85 billion and you get $425,000 My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18 and over as a dividend.
Of course, it would not be tax free, so assuming a tax rate of 30%, each of these adults would pay $127,500 back in income taxes, returning $595,000 right back to Uncle Sam.
But it also means each of these adults has $297,500 in his pocket, a total of $595,000 for a married couple.
What would you do with $297,500. in your family?
. . . Pay off your mortgage - solving the mortgage crisis.
. . . Pay off college loans - what a great boost to ne college grads
. . . Put away money for college - a great boost for education our next generation
. . . Save it in a bank - creating money for loans to entrepreneurs and boost the troubled banks.
. . . Buy a new car and create jobs
. . . Invest in the market - providing capital drives growth
. . . Pay for yours and your parents medical insurance - improving thenation's health care.
. . . Enable "deadbeat dads" to come clean - or else

Remember, this is for every single adult U.S.Citizen 18 and over including those who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and other companies cutting back and, of course, those serving in our Armed Forces..
If we are going to redistribute wealth, let's really do it instead of trickling out a puny $$1,000 "vote buying" economic incentive now being proposed by our presidential candidates.
If we are going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bailout every adult U.S. Citizen 18 and older.

As for AIG, liquidate it and sell off its parts. Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the r3al estate and let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't!
Sure it's a crazy idea that we will never use, but can you imagine the coast to coast Block Party!
How do you spell "Economic Boom? I trust my fellow Americans toknow how to use that $85 billion.
We deserve this dividend more than the geniuses at AIG or Washington, and remember the
Birk Plan really only costs $59.5 billion because $25.5 billion is returned instantly tp Uncle San
in taxes.
Ahhh. . . I feel so much better getting that off my chest

Kindest personal regards,
Birk

T.J. Birkenmeier, A creative Citizen of the Republic.

P.S. Even if the number is 250 million, the share is $340,000 gross each. Of course, your State and Local governments will want their share, too, but think of all the public works projects that could be
completed. More jobs!
This far better than "trickle down" economics - this is "tidal wave" economics


he does have some great ideas

[renrich]

Firstly, although I hate to agree with PB on anything, Ha Ha, he is dead right about the right wing talk shows such as Rush. All their fulminating about this "bailout" bill being socialism is BS. They are the same type of people who said it was socialism when the FDIC or the Federal Reserve was formed. They are doing our country a disservice. This bill that failed to pass yesterday is similar to and no worse than when the RTC was formed in the 80s to take over the assets of the failed S&Ls and banks during the housing recession. Guess what, the market drop in Oct. 1987, was worse than yesterday and the economic situation then was worse than today and the RTC wound up costing the US little or nothing, just like this bill that was not passed yesterday would do. The difference between today and the 80s is that we are in a "Perfect Storm" today created by the media and the dimocrats because of their hatred of and demonisation of Bush. There is little doubt in my mind that the dimocrat leadership is prolonging this economic crisis because they know that the American public is largely blaming the GOP administration and every day that goes by brings obama and the dimocrats closer to having ultimate power in Washington. It is a great shame that people like obama, pelosi, schumer, franks, reid, et. al. put their personal ambition and thirst for power ahead of the best interests of our country.

[SpitfireKing]

Originally Posted by Njaco

To back up Eric's point about executives and their salaries and bonus', I got the following from Forbes.....

Angelo R Mozilo: CEO of Countrywide Financial - Total Compensation: $57 million
Richard D Fairbank: CEO of Capital One Financial - Total Compensation: $56 million
William P Foley II: CEO of Fidelity National Financial(for 1 year!) - Total Compensation $179.56 million
Kenneth D Lewis: CEO of Bank of America - Total Compensation $99.80 million
Lloyd Blankfein: Chairman of Goldman Sachs Group Inc. - Total Compensation $54.3 million
Stanley O'Neal: CEO of Merill Lynch & Co. - Total Compensation $49 million
James Cayne: former CEO of Bear Stearns Companies Inc. - Total Compensation $33.85 million
Richard Fuld: CEO of Lehman Brothers Holding Inc. - Total Compensation $40.5 million

I want a job that pays $179 million for being there one year!! Do you think any of these guys are hurting?

Course not Njaco, if their companies begin falling out, their going to give themselves huge arse raises then bail out, CEO's first.

[SpitfireKing]

Originally Posted by Erich

through a vet ~

The Birk Economic Recovery Plan
I'm against the $85,000,000,000 bailout of AIG.
Instead, I favor giving $85,000,000,000 to America as a "We Deserve It Dividend."
The math is simple. Let's assume there are 200,000,000 bona fide U.S. citizens 18 or older in our 301,000,000 population (which includdes every man, woman and child), making 200,000,000 an accurate estimate of adults over 18 years.
So, divide 200 million adults into 85 billion and you get $425,000 My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18 and over as a dividend.
Of course, it would not be tax free, so assuming a tax rate of 30%, each of these adults would pay $127,500 back in income taxes, returning $595,000 right back to Uncle Sam.
But it also means each of these adults has $297,500 in his pocket, a total of $595,000 for a married couple.
What would you do with $297,500. in your family?
. . . Pay off your mortgage - solving the mortgage crisis.
. . . Pay off college loans - what a great boost to ne college grads
. . . Put away money for college - a great boost for education our next generation
. . . Save it in a bank - creating money for loans to entrepreneurs and boost the troubled banks.
. . . Buy a new car and create jobs
. . . Invest in the market - providing capital drives growth
. . . Pay for yours and your parents medical insurance - improving thenation's health care.
. . . Enable "deadbeat dads" to come clean - or else

Remember, this is for every single adult U.S.Citizen 18 and over including those who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and other companies cutting back and, of course, those serving in our Armed Forces..
If we are going to redistribute wealth, let's really do it instead of trickling out a puny $$1,000 "vote buying" economic incentive now being proposed by our presidential candidates.
If we are going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bailout every adult U.S. Citizen 18 and older.

As for AIG, liquidate it and sell off its parts. Let American General go back to being American General.
Sell off the r3al estate and let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't!
Sure it's a crazy idea that we will never use, but can you imagine the coast to coast Block Party!
How do you spell "Economic Boom? I trust my fellow Americans toknow how to use that $85 billion.
We deserve this dividend more than the geniuses at AIG or Washington, and remember the
Birk Plan really only costs $59.5 billion because $25.5 billion is returned instantly tp Uncle San
in taxes.
Ahhh. . . I feel so much better getting that off my chest

Kindest personal regards,
Birk

T.J. Birkenmeier, A creative Citizen of the Republic.

P.S. Even if the number is 250 million, the share is $340,000 gross each. Of course, your State and Local governments will want their share, too, but think of all the public works projects that could be
completed. More jobs!
This far better than "trickle down" economics - this is "tidal wave" economics


he does have some great ideas

I read that same exact thing! Why can't we do that? Oh, thats right, because politics sucks, thats why.

[JugBR]

you see njaco, is not too much diferent.