Aussies: Tell Us it isn't True!!!

Emac44 · 11-12-2007, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaco

I thought we had the monopoly on that!

And I only brought that other thread out because of what he said to Adler. Frickin', racist, meathead hypocrite!

anyway here it is if you want.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/pol...tml#post287337 (What The F*ck Is That?!)

Had a look at what he had said in other threads as well Nijaco, Wasn't impressed

Heinz · 11-12-2007, 06:29 AM

Well that Frankster dude was certainly a well balanced person, chip on each shoulder.

Lucky13 · 11-12-2007, 12:04 PM

Tell me one thing comrades.....

WHAT God given right have people that come to our countries to demand a flag to change because they say it's racist? Many of these flags go back 100's of years, just look at the Danish flag, it's THE oldest national flag still in use in the world.... It was the was the first of the Scandinavian "crosses" followed by Sweden, Norway, Finland and Iceland...
I've tried to find out the ages of the different flags in Europe, to see for how long the likes of Germany, UK, Italy, France etc. have been in use...
All this yibbi yadda about changing a national flag because it doesn't suit certain people pisses me right me off....
Nordic Cross Flag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SteveH · 11-12-2007, 06:21 PM

Personally, I'm a little disappointed by the vitriol emanating from the Aussies on this site over this subject. Yes, it was stupid of the organisers of the concert to take that action. But consider it in context - for you non-Sydneysiders, we had a little even called the Cronulla riots not long ago. This was essentially a local turf war, where some Lebanese-Australians got a bit unruly at Cronulla beach, and it turned into a political riot. Those Leb thugs definitely needed a lesson, but instead a bunch of redneck cowards beat the crap out of innocent kids. The result? Aussies always work it out - now we have a few Muslim (hijab-wearing) lifeguards, and the Lebs feel more a part of the Australian experience.

Frankster may have gone off on a bit of a tangent, but have you forgotten what makes us what we are? We have never been the types to fly flags over our houses. We don't need to. We have a quiet passion for this country that needs no overt statement. I never felt the need to question my patriotism, and most Australians I know, be it of anglo-saxon background or other, have a more spritual connection with the country. Its difficult to describe, but its akin to the immediate rapport you have when you meet a fellow Aussie overseas, or that pang you feel when one of our kind dies in a foreign land. And perhaps most of all, the delight at returning here if you've been away for a while. I consider it unique, and I've lived in many countries over the years. It is something that develops, though. There is a kind of culture shock for some of these immigrants - but I'll tell you this; when I see some tall gangly Ethiopian kid playing with her classmates and yelling with a broad Aussie accent, I feel pretty damned good about it.

And about the flag itself? Our non-Australian friends might get the impression that there isn't an argument in this country about it. But a large proportion are not happy with it as it is. I am one of them. There is a foriegn country's flag inside my country's flag, and I don't like it.

To my countrymen, please don't de-intellectuallise this debate with simplistic nationalism - that's not us, and you do us no service. And if Frankser has some Italian heritage, by all means support Italy in the WC. We have a heel of a lot of Italian-heritage people in this country. Its not like a lot of English-Australians don't do it in the cricket or the rugby.

I don't expect agreement on this post - that's fine. I hope you will reflect on it, and consider the arguments below the service.

Steve

Emac44 · 11-12-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveH

Personally, I'm a little disappointed by the vitriol emanating from the Aussies on this site over this subject. Yes, it was stupid of the organisers of the concert to take that action. But consider it in context - for you non-Sydneysiders, we had a little even called the Cronulla riots not long ago. This was essentially a local turf war, where some Lebanese-Australians got a bit unruly at Cronulla beach, and it turned into a political riot. Those Leb thugs definitely needed a lesson, but instead a bunch of redneck cowards beat the crap out of innocent kids. The result? Aussies always work it out - now we have a few Muslim (hijab-wearing) lifeguards, and the Lebs feel more a part of the Australian experience.

Frankster may have gone off on a bit of a tangent, but have you forgotten what makes us what we are? We have never been the types to fly flags over our houses. We don't need to. We have a quiet passion for this country that needs no overt statement. I never felt the need to question my patriotism, and most Australians I know, be it of anglo-saxon background or other, have a more spritual connection with the country. Its difficult to describe, but its akin to the immediate rapport you have when you meet a fellow Aussie overseas, or that pang you feel when one of our kind dies in a foreign land. And perhaps most of all, the delight at returning here if you've been away for a while. I consider it unique, and I've lived in many countries over the years. It is something that develops, though. There is a kind of culture shock for some of these immigrants - but I'll tell you this; when I see some tall gangly Ethiopian kid playing with her classmates and yelling with a broad Aussie accent, I feel pretty damned good about it.

And about the flag itself? Our non-Australian friends might get the impression that there isn't an argument in this country about it. But a large proportion are not happy with it as it is. I am one of them. There is a foriegn country's flag inside my country's flag, and I don't like it.

To my countrymen, please don't de-intellectuallise this debate with simplistic nationalism - that's not us, and you do us no service. And if Frankser has some Italian heritage, by all means support Italy in the WC. We have a heel of a lot of Italian-heritage people in this country. Its not like a lot of English-Australians don't do it in the cricket or the rugby.

I don't expect agreement on this post - that's fine. I hope you will reflect on it, and consider the arguments below the service.

Steve

Steve,
No one is disagreeing if Frank had a different idea about the Australian Flag nor you having similar ideas about the Australian Flag. That is what it is about to live in a democratic country. But in such it deosn't give Frank the right to be abusive to another forum user because the other forum user happens to disagree. Look Steve I can well appreciate your viewpoint can you do the same with mine and I am sure you can. But Frank couldn't and his attitude was that of blind patroitism for Italy yet he lived here. He gave the impression that it wasn't good enough to live here or that our History in Australia along with the Australian Flag was second rate to that of his Italian Heritage. And you well know that a lot of Aussies including myself would get our backs up about that type of attitude from some one like Frank. You know most Aussies are pretty excepting of others overall but if some one prefers to constantly rate better their former country and place this country as not good enough or we should be in Australia be grateful for their pressence in this country isn't going to sit well with a lot of Australians,

No one is saying that an immigrant has to forget their culture or their heritage from their former homeland. But to put down this country as Frank was doing and it wasn't good enough and everything Australian or British was second rate compared to that of Italy. One questions why Frank and his family bothers to stay in Australia.

And having Lebonese Surf Life Savers is a cultural plus. But in as such Lebonese Teenagers have caused problems in Sydney. Not saying they are the only ones to do so either and not judging the Lebonese overall community in this either by the actions of a few. And I am not in favour of a few Aussie Yobs beating up a few innocent kids either. But it was more than a turf war and problems have been occuring in Sydney Suburbs for years and its been ignored by successive State Governments in NSW

I don't wrap myself up in ultra patriotism as like others in other countries do or wear the Australian Flag as the be end and all as most Aussies don't as you pointed out so well Steve. But to ban our Flag as a Political Correct Statement from a Concert was ridiculous in my opinion. Whether you agree or disagree that part of our Flag forms in part by a Foriegn Flag or not. It is our National Flag and as such our Nation comes first above Political Correctness Statements that the organiser of the Great Australian Day Out Concert was trying to put forward. Say for example if we had changed our National Flag prior to the Concert and same organiser had came out with same attitude and wanted the Flag Banned from the Concert I would still be of the same opinion Steve. Our National Symbol (Flag) andf our Nation comes before Political Correctness.

And Steve it wasn't vitrol coming from Aussies here on this site but Frank being a right prick to others on this site towards others in another country or countries. He had insulted Adler with Sieg Heils in Private Messages and emails, And regardless of the debate on the Australian Flag on this thread. Frank doing what he had done was improper and absolutely rude and bloody minded and displayed a really juvenile attitude on this site and towards Adler in particular. Frank displayed no respect and his other attitudes about Australia and Italy even though he is entitled to them still displayed his attitude of intolerence. And you know some one like that is going to get bounced Steve.

You and I can agree to disagree Steve. But at the very least both of us would except and expect that we had varying and valid points without resorting to juvenile insults and reactions. I doubt very much Frank was an innocent party when he got into strife with a couple of Aussies wearing the Australian Flag at a football match as he claims. It takes 2 to tango and one wonders how much Frank himself brought on to himself a negative reaction at the Football Match by the others at the Football Match, But any way Steve Frank has been excluded from the site not because he has varying ideas or some find his comments distasteful or even vitrol. Frank himself was just an immature prick. And no one has to put up with that sort of attitude Steve

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-12-2007, 09:08 PM

I have to agree with Emac here. No one condemned Frankster for his herritage but the way he tried to come across with this posts.

Emac44 · 11-12-2007, 10:23 PM

And Anti Jewish statements by Frank are not going to win him any friends either Adler. I know we have to be very careful about going to far about Muslims in referring to Islamic Fundamentalism. But mostly I feel most on this site know the difference between Muslims who want to be left alone to practise their faith and live in peace with others then to the radical types of Muslims who do not.

And Steve, Frank had made some disparging remarks about Jews and it was seen as uncalled for and totally un-necassary on this forum site. Frank in a period of a few days managed to put a sour taste on this forum site that had nothing to do with his attitude towards a change of the Australian Flag. And I am sure he wasn't a bloody clean skin at that football match he rabbited on about with those other Aussies. By his reaction on this forum I am positive he would have pulled on a lot of it upon himself with those other Aussies and they reacted towards him. There is always 2 sides to an arguement. We only heard Frank's side. But his attitude on the computer lends me to believe Frank away from the Computer is an irritating type of person who would have opened his mouth at the wrong time and had brought on the trouble himself. Either by what he said or his actions or both, And I have been to quiet a few Football matches to know that it does occur before during and after a match.

In other words Steve, Frank caused his own dramas on this forum and I would dare say in his day to day life even at a football match

SteveH · 11-12-2007, 10:33 PM

Emac,
Good post, and refreshing. By the way, I must have missed the anti-semitic remarks he made. In no way do I defend him over that sentiment, and had I realised he made them, I would have condemned him as passionately. That is unforgivable.

Cheers,

Steve

Emac44 · 11-12-2007, 10:42 PM

Steve no worries mate. You and I can agree to disagree. And despite the Flag debate dispite Frank and his attitude. This country you and I call home comes first and the processes of democracy that we have in this country. I love Australia its my home, And even when I have been away from Australia and have been often. IT IS HOME. Like the Peter Allen song says I Still Call Australia Home. Right or wrong in our history of this country. It is Home. I would never live any where else to forsake this country. And that is no insult to others who live in their respective countries because I am sure they have the same ideas and love of country to their own home lands as I have to Australia.

And my wife is a Filippina. She still loves her birth place her family her country the Philippines. But she wants to be an Australian Citizen, Steve.
And it isn't all to do with me because her husband is an Australian. But she loves being here as to the freedoms she has in becoming an Australian Citizen. My wife constantly asks me about the History of this country. The Attitude of Australians which are varied. What it is like being an Aussie. How can she adpat to be a good Australian even though she has immigrated. She just wants to have the chance like any immigrant to be an Australian Citizen. She has problems with why some in this country take all of that for granted and she asks me why do some do that. I can't answer her on that Steve

Heinz · 11-12-2007, 10:51 PM

I'd like just add that I found the whole rioting thing repulsive and vile. It turned my stomach to see such a thing in Australia.

Where I'm proud of where I live I do not however get in a state of euphoria over nationalism but what does gripe me is political correctness.

No flags to offend such and such etc.....

Not to mention the current vindication of Muslim's at this point via carefully worded articles and publications.

I'm sick of seeing wedges being selectively pushed into society to create devides.

Australia is lucky enough to let people enjoy what they like, within reason of course. The flag issue is irrelevent not to mention a farce if thats the thing to blame for the tensions.

Whoever lives in Australia has the right to call it home much like any other nation, to me anyway.

mkloby · 11-12-2007, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Agreed Lucky. Once my house in Alaska is built there will be 4 flags flying from my property.

1. US Flag
2. German Flag
3. Alaskan Flag
4. POW Flag

Dude - what about the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor???

I want to get a flag pole at our new house and fly the national ensign with the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 11-12-2007, 11:03 PM

I was in the Army remember, not the Marines!

I would fly the Army flag before I would fly the Corps flag.

Lucky13 · 11-13-2007, 11:55 AM

Australian friends.....those that want to change the flag, do they have have any ideas to what the new flag should look like?? Does the New Zealanders feel the same about theirs as it also carry the Union Jack in it?

SteveH · 11-13-2007, 05:57 PM

Lucky, this debate has been ongoing for the last 20 years, but it picked up momentum a few years ago with a referendum on becomming a republic. Don't know about NZ, but I suspect they are not as keen as some Australians (not the majority, I stress). To my knowledge, the most popular suggestions include retaining the Southern Cross on a navy blue background, or the more contentious Eureka Stockade flag, which also features the cross.

Steve

Lucky13 · 11-14-2007, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveH

Lucky, this debate has been ongoing for the last 20 years, but it picked up momentum a few years ago with a referendum on becomming a republic. Don't know about NZ, but I suspect they are not as keen as some Australians (not the majority, I stress). To my knowledge, the most popular suggestions include retaining the Southern Cross on a navy blue background, or the more contentious Eureka Stockade flag, which also features the cross.

Steve

Would you mind explaining the "Southern Cross" and "Eureka Stockade" flag mate? When I hear "Southern Cross" I automatically think about the flag used by the Confederate Army in the American civil war, but the "Eureka Stockade" flag, never heard about that one....