The big three bailout.

Vassili Zaitzev · 11-20-2008, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timshatz

Smart move Vassili. Credit for you isn't going to be the same as credit was for me. Going to be a bit tougher. 30 year credit card binge is ending.

Buy nothing of any value until after the deflationary spiral is over. The way it works is prices tomorrow are going to be cheaper than today. So, you don't buy stuff today and hold your money, so the sellers of the product lower the price to move the product. You see prices go down, so you don't buy, so the price drops again. There are other affects (reduction of the money supply, asset values dropping-such as homes and land, ect) but the end result is prices have to find a new level.

You actually may be in the best spot of any of us. Your in school (so pretty much out of the work force) and will probably be coming out in another 2-3 years. When you do, the market (both Job and Economic) should be improving with prices at a new low reflecting the delfated money supply.

Thanks for the advice Tim; I'll keep what you said in mind. Thankfully, my dad is a banker, he's helping me with my fianances so I don't screw up.

Amsel · 11-20-2008, 09:44 PM

I say no to a "bail out". The company should file chapter 11 and rebuild the company into a profitable business. The economy is bad so they aren't going to be selling autos. A bail out by the taxpayers is fundamentally wrong. The legistlative branch is out of control and the money is not theirs to give away.

I get tired of these politicians rewriting the constitution.

Vassili Zaitzev · 11-20-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amsel

I say no to a "bail out". The company should file chapter 11 and rebuild the company into a profitable business. The economy is bad so they aren't going to be selling autos. A bail out by the taxpayers is fundamentally wrong. The legistlative branch is out of control and the money is not theirs to give away.

I get tired of these politicians rewriting the constitution.

Agreed. Why reward failure?

Thorlifter · 11-20-2008, 11:48 PM

Wait a second. Congress is going to decide if the automakers fiscal plan is viable!!!!!!!! Congress!!!!! This is the same branch of the judicial system that spends millions on finding out what the prefered mate is for a female Canadian Snow Goose.......a quarter million to combat the goth lifestyle.......a million dollars to see if mass transit buses could run on soybeans.

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad they are taking a second look at some of this bailout BS. But come on.

BTW, the prefered mate to a female Canadian Snow Goose is a male Canadian Snow Goose. THAT WAS MONEY WELL SPENT!!!!

ccheese · 11-21-2008, 09:03 AM

I believe the auto makers will get their bail-out, but it's going to have a lot
of strings attached to it.

I also believe they don't deserve it and shouldn't get it. Too much dead wood
at the top ! The GM CEO's base salary, last year was 18 Mil.
And this doesn't include perks....

Charles

renrich · 11-21-2008, 09:23 AM

Aside from bloated CEO recompense, I saw that average GM hourly wage including benefits was $78/hour. Toyota average was $35/hour. If that is accurate? DUH!

timshatz · 11-21-2008, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renrich

Aside from bloated CEO recompense, I saw that average GM hourly wage including benefits was $78/hour. Toyota average was $35/hour. If that is accurate? DUH!

Probably is. Include in Health Care for workers and retires, pension plans for retires, full benefits packages (including pay) for workers at idle plants, and it all adds up fast. As bad as the management is (and it's pretty bad), the Unions have run contract after contract through that they knew would eventually bankrupt the company.

The whole industry is a disfunctional pile of crap. Make decent cars, especially the trucks, but run by idiots.

timshatz · 11-21-2008, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbfoot

How will going into chapter 11 affect pensions and such

Gone. Those that aren't employee owned will, to some extent, go to creditors. But the real kicker is the retirees. They'll be off the health care plans. Also, Union contracts will be renegotiated or just dumped. Judges go to town on bankrupt companies. Chapter 11 (restructuring) will end up with a much smaller company. A lot of people will lose their jobs. But the jobs were untenable anyway.

timshatz · 11-21-2008, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vassili Zaitzev

Thanks for the advice Tim; I'll keep what you said in mind. Thankfully, my dad is a banker, he's helping me with my fianances so I don't screw up.

Good luck.

Feel for you Dad. Rough, very rough, business to be in. Heard this morning that 20% of the world wide finance industry (1 in 5) will lose their jobs in this downturn. Mostly in investment banking and brokers, but regular banks are going to take a hit too.

Vassili Zaitzev · 11-21-2008, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timshatz

Good luck.

Feel for you Dad. Rough, very rough, business to be in. Heard this morning that 20% of the world wide finance industry (1 in 5) will lose their jobs in this downturn. Mostly in investment banking and brokers, but regular banks are going to take a hit too.

Thanks.

Well, his bank didn't get hit that bad because of the recession. The bank's under Canadian management, and I guess they didn't take on a lot of questionable loans.

Well, I'm going home today for Thanksgiving break, so I can ask him what the damage was for his bank.

Doubl3Ac3 · 11-21-2008, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timshatz

Gonna be a rough 2009 guys. Save your money. Looks like a deflationary spiral is starting up. Nobody knows how that will end but it tends to feed on itself.

Well thats good to know as whatever effects the U.S eventually ends up biting us in the ass

on the plus side for now our gas is the cheapest in like 2 years

timshatz · 11-21-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubl3Ac3

Well thats good to know as whatever effects the U.S eventually ends up biting us in the ass

on the plus side for now our gas is the cheapest in like 2 years

Should get even cheaper. Hearing heads say it might drop below $40 a barrel. Under $35 is not out of the question. Just got off the phone with my brother and he told me it's $1.77 a gallon in Houston.

Things will get cheaper, odd thing is, it might get hard to find stuff. The profit margins are going to get really tight as cost of materials drop but wages stay the same.

Long and short, what you buy today will be cheaper tomorrow. So, hold on to your cash and decrease your debt (Credit Card, Home Equity Loan, ect) as those things will become MORE expensive in terms of real wages.

GOOD LUCK GUYS! TO THOSE WITH NO DEBT AND A GOOD JOB, IT'S PARTY TIME!

ccheese · 11-21-2008, 04:40 PM

Now the transportation networks [Subways, Light Rail] are going to ask for a bail out. They had a good tax dodge til it bit them in the a$$. The NY subway system was selling subway cars to banks, who would then lease them back to the subway. Both would then get to depreciate the cars on their taxes. Congress got wind of it and changed the law. Now they got their hand out....

Charles

ThunderThud · 11-21-2008, 10:41 PM

I own a Jeep and a Chrysler Caravan. What Brand of vehicle do you guys own?

Oh i just want to let you know I work for a GM dealership as a Tech (grease Monkey)

evangilder · 11-21-2008, 11:15 PM

I feel for you TT. When I got laid-off from Alcatel, they had lost over $7 billion in a single year! I watched my stocks go from about $75 a share, to $4. But I have to be honest here, bailing out companies that are doing poorly because of bad business decision and practices is crazy.