Can the EU keep peace in Europe

mkloby · 02-19-2007, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAdlerIstGelandet

Why dont you come over here and see it for yourself then, rather than make assumptions about something you dont know about. Because you obviously do not have a clue.

They recieve free housing, monthly salary as long as they are looking for employment, they recieve kinder geld for each child they have. They take all this money and buy nice things and dont work. They never find work, but "look" for work.

I know a bit more about than you do, I live over here you sure as hell dont!

Hey Chris - is there a limit on the amount of time that they are eligible to receive these stipends? Public assistance is a decent thing (well I disagree with public assistance for anyone other than actual citizens), but there should be a limit on the length that it can be received. Otherwise, it degenerates into handouts and promotes sloth tenfold.

Emac - that was the longest post I have ever seen. Only read half - I'll have to go back later and read the rest!

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 02-19-2007, 04:02 PM

There is for the most part. But it is quite a long amount of time. I will have to ask my wife for the exact amount of time.

Emac44 · 02-19-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkloby

Hey Chris - is there a limit on the amount of time that they are eligible to receive these stipends? Public assistance is a decent thing (well I disagree with public assistance for anyone other than actual citizens), but there should be a limit on the length that it can be received. Otherwise, it degenerates into handouts and promotes sloth tenfold.

Emac - that was the longest post I have ever seen. Only read half - I'll have to go back later and read the rest!

Mkloby you did get most of the idea though. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and make statements based on ignorance

plan_D · 02-20-2007, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Hey Chris - is there a limit on the amount of time that they are eligible to receive these stipends? Public assistance is a decent thing (well I disagree with public assistance for anyone other than actual citizens), but there should be a limit on the length that it can be received. Otherwise, it degenerates into handouts and promotes sloth tenfold.

There's no time limits on those in Britain. The government just gives away my tax money to all the immigrants who cannot be bothered to work; which is a lot of them. And now, more annoying that anything, we're getting signs in Britain - in several different languages! Including Arabic and Polish.

bomber · 02-20-2007, 07:12 AM

We have another strange situation in the UK with regards TAX..

A migrant working, ie one that actually comes to the UK and finds work under the freedom of work act does not pay tax for the first 18 months...

This means that a situation has arisen where these workers work the 18months earning far more than they would in their native countries, shared accomdation costs with fellow migrant workers and in effect with their pricing structure operate a cartel to undercut the existing local workforce..

After the 18 months of sending the majority of their money earned back home, they go back home to avoid their tax liability..

And another one takes their place.

Simon

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 02-20-2007, 09:58 AM

I am going to have to see if that is the same here in Germany. It would not surprise me...

ndicki · 02-20-2007, 03:37 PM

Shite, I'm going to have to go back to Blair's People's Paradise and claim to be an immigrant!

Erich · 02-20-2007, 04:20 PM

plan you are not alone. We have the same non controllableness in Oregon with migrant workers getting a free ride. Our 'great' govenor greets all with open arms.

go back home !

mkloby · 02-20-2007, 06:36 PM

Pd - there's not a public push to cut out this sort on nonsense in the UK? Don't people think to themselves - I work to support my family, not freeloaders?

Emac44 · 02-20-2007, 06:54 PM

And after all said and done what Chris Plan Mk myself and others have said about problems in England and other parts of Europe with immigrant problems and how the residences of these countries perceive these areas. Still the question is how does the EU keep peace in Europe with all this seething tension coming from residents in various EU Countries. It has only confirmed in my mind and the problems viewed via the media and sources from yourselves and others that the tensions are just under the surface and ready to explode at any given time or occurence in the EU. Maybe its just me but I forsee further riots racial disharmony suspicions extreme right and left wing organisations coming up to take the place of moderate political organisations in EU Countries, Where has this occured before? And what similar events occurred in EU Countries etc? And with the bombings in London and Madrid and further problems in England over last year or so coming to world attention I have problems believing the EU will be abled to keep peace for much longer

Maestro · 02-20-2007, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkloby

Pd - there's not a public push to cut out this sort on nonsense in the UK? Don't people think to themselves - I work to support my family, not freeloaders?

If it's like in Canada, no one will. Otherwise they would be treated of racist and the local intelligencia would jump in the side of the immigrants and treat all of us of racists.

"Muslisms are just trying to practice their religion freely.."

Sure ! F*ck off !

Emac44 · 02-21-2007, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maestro

If it's like in Canada, no one will. Otherwise they would be treated of racist and the local intelligencia would jump in the side of the immigrants and treat all of us of racists.

"Muslisms are just trying to practice their religion freely.."

Sure ! F*ck off !

I don't mind Muslims practising their religion. Just I don't need to try and practise it for them or forced by them to do so

Delusional · 02-21-2007, 11:17 PM

Emac,
There is no need to be personally offensive and critical. Most of my information has come from talking with a professor of mine who lived in England until she was 19, when she came to America to attend college. She returns every summer and holiday. She is uniquely able to compare the U.S. and the U.K., I would say. Most of what I believe is her personal account, along with a textbook (yes, for a college course) that discusses the political and social ideology of twenty nations of the world. It is called Cases in Comparative Politics - Social Ideals.

Not that it really matters, but I'm a female, for future reference, Emac. And I'm happy to see that you finally got my screen name correct in your most recent posts. As though delusionable is a word...

I would love to discuss the treatment of Latin American immigrants within the U.S., as I and several others already have in the context of this forum. What you say is absolutely true. My comments were not meant to isolate the U.K. as the only nation with problems concerning ethnic, racial, and national identity. I am just as critical of the U.S., but this thread was specifically talking about the U.K. and the EU. And the BNP and British immigration issues were brought up. By the way, to say that the American Civil War was fought over slavery is to misunderstand the entire conflict. Neither side was fighting over slavery, but that's a whole other thread...

What do you mean I failed to mention my own country's ethnic, national, and racial problems? Last I checked we weren't talking about that in this thread. Why would I have gone off on such an unrelated tangent? I guess I left that to you to discuss something completely unrelated to this thread and to again put words into my mouth (guess there is still room next to my feet) by claiming that you know where I stand and how I feel about my own nation's mistakes. You clearly wouldn't know how I feel about that, because we weren't discussing that topic.

Martin Luther King, Jr. Day is not celebrated so that the U.S. can pretend that everyone is treated equally. It is celebrated to educate others about the life and works of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. In fact, the holiday is a harsh reminder of the segregation still present in U.S. society.

I can imagine what the rest of the world sees coming from America, and I've never claimed to be proud of it at all, but you wouldn't know what I would claim on this issue, because, once again, we were not discussing this.

Lack of reading skills...oh boy. I'm not going to take segments of your writing and rip them apart in terms of structure, grammar, spelling, and mechanics...but I could. I'm not that cruel, though. And this forum is not intended for discussions on correct English (whether it be American or Australian English); I was just explaining to you that I couldn't follow your posts. I was not trying to personally insult you, as you have done to me. Have a good day.

Emac44 · 02-22-2007, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delusional

Emac,
There is no need to be personally offensive and critical. Most of my information has come from talking with a professor of mine who lived in England until she was 19, when she came to America to attend college. She returns every summer and holiday. She is uniquely able to compare the U.S. and the U.K., I would say. Most of what I believe is her personal account, along with a textbook (yes, for a college course) that discusses the political and social ideology of twenty nations of the world. It is called Cases in Comparative Politics - Social Ideals.

Not that it really matters, but I'm a female, for future reference, Emac. And I'm happy to see that you finally got my screen name correct in your most recent posts. As though delusionable is a word...

I would love to discuss the treatment of Latin American immigrants within the U.S., as I and several others already have in the context of this forum. What you say is absolutely true. My comments were not meant to isolate the U.K. as the only nation with problems concerning ethnic, racial, and national identity. I am just as critical of the U.S., but this thread was specifically talking about the U.K. and the EU. And the BNP and British immigration issues were brought up. By the way, to say that the American Civil War was fought over slavery is to misunderstand the entire conflict. Neither side was fighting over slavery, but that's a whole other thread...

What do you mean I failed to mention my own country's ethnic, national, and racial problems? Last I checked we weren't talking about that in this thread. Why would I have gone off on such an unrelated tangent? I guess I left that to you to discuss something completely unrelated to this thread and to again put words into my mouth (guess there is still room next to my feet) by claiming that you know where I stand and how I feel about my own nation's mistakes. You clearly wouldn't know how I feel about that, because we weren't discussing that topic.

Martin Luther King, Jr. Day is not celebrated so that the U.S. can pretend that everyone is treated equally. It is celebrated to educate others about the life and works of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. In fact, the holiday is a harsh reminder of the segregation still present in U.S. society.

I can imagine what the rest of the world sees coming from America, and I've never claimed to be proud of it at all, but you wouldn't know what I would claim on this issue, because, once again, we were not discussing this.

Lack of reading skills...oh boy. I'm not going to take segments of your writing and rip them apart in terms of structure, grammar, spelling, and mechanics...but I could. I'm not that cruel, though. And this forum is not intended for discussions on correct English (whether it be American or Australian English); I was just explaining to you that I couldn't follow your posts. I was not trying to personally insult you, as you have done to me. Have a good day.

My dear girl. You have said to me your sources come from 1 your Professor. 2 Text Books 3 and a Discussion group in a classroom. Yeah right. And still you lack experiences and form opinions on society because your professors says its so. Oh hell. How Naive are you my dear girl to take word for bloody word rhetoric from your professor without examining for yourself conflicting evidence. If this is what the Politics you are being taught at college. You have failed in all respects to research and evaluation of information at hand whether it be conflicting or surporting what Professor says. I think by your posts you lack the ability to think for yourself. My dear girl in politics you learn to listen to, study other ideas. NOT JUST MOUTH SOMEONE ELSES IDEAS AND PUT A LABLE ON THEM AS YOUR OWN

In politics you learn listen evaluate and formulate opinion. If you feel you are being attack then I suggest to you politics isn't for you. If you want to make a statement as you have done. Please do not come back here and say it is so becuase teacher/professors says it is so. You make yourself a puppet and appear a fool because you have not research all avenues of the subject and taken it as gospel from professor/teacher and nothing else matters due to evidence that conflicts with the political stance or personal view of aforementioned professor/teacher or what appears in certain text books that you maybe reading or recommended by your course requirements. If some one switches the arguement as I have done. be prepared for change of tactic. You obviously are unprepared for such a switch and using such tangents as comparing US to UK politics as part of arguement and debate. Instead of entering a debate as such in this forum tell me what you believe not what you are mouthing from 1 text book 2 professor and you had better researched prepared and have at least a thorough knowledge of what you are trying to debate. Because my dear girl unlike you I don't take pity on some one unprepared and I will mock you and belittle you as I feel fit. This my girl is politics lesson 101. In The Adult World in Politics. I do not need a Professor to oversee a debate nor restricted in the debate or go by rules and structures you have in classroom debate. As for the incorrect spelling of your name it was done intentionally. As for my type of English my dear girl. I can not be bothered with gramar in a forum typed debated. You want correct Gramar and spelling go and buy yourself a copy of Hansard.

Now having said that. If you can not stand some one being critical of such an opening statement you had made visa your dear professor once again I fear politics in the real world isn't for you. And oh by the way issues of Slavery in the Southern United States was a core of the situation or reasoning behind Southern Rights. I refer you to statements Via politicans at the time between 1850 to 1861 coming from various State Governments that eventually rebelled and left the UNION. One such individual Senator John C Calhourne and his speaches from 1840 to 1850. Part of the rhetoric as it was coming from politicans like Calhourne was that slaves were property and as such the South in economics were dependant on Slavery and the Institution of Slavery to shore up economy etc. As the owning of Slaves etc was deemed as a Right under your own constitution according to some and the North was trampling those rights and with the loss of political influences in the South and the switich of economic power going to the North with an ever increasing political backing due to population and increasing influences that was occuring in the North etc. Another example is the Dred Scott case of where Dred Scott a slave who escaped north was to be returned by legal processes under laws structured by States and Federal

As for the Thread it was me who placed this thread in this debate. As I am and have been a student of Politics in Europe for 20 years and have researched European Politics and Warfare from the times of Rome to the Current Time Frame. What some of the English forum users are telling you is current view point of many English men and women. Social Welfare Programs they are informing you of do exsist. Counter racism by such as those suicide bombers does exsist. extremists viewpoints of either left or right extreme politics does exsist. Racism in all being illogical does exsist. But instead of making such narrow sighted statement as you first made and I suspect you knew what reaction you would receive and your protests of being attacked and maligned by me or other forum users is so much piss and wind. Do not bother me with trying to say you are feeling attacked or I am trying to put words in your mouth. Your professor by your own admission has done that already

DerAdlerIstGelandet · 02-22-2007, 10:21 AM

Well said Emac.

I dont care what a professor who has lived in the States for the last 20 plus years has to say just because they go back home on vacation. I dont give a damn what a text book says. Especially a text book written by someone who probably does not know there head from there ass when it comes to a topic of European politics because they more likely never really lived in Europe to understand it.

Living in a place is different from reading it in text book or just visiting the place.

One thing I learned when I was in college was to take a quarter of the information that was in the text books and call it false or just plain opinion.